What does it actually mean to be anti-racist? And what happens when we move beyond intending to be a good person and start examining how racism shapes the systems, cultures and behaviours we participate in?

In this episode of The Edge of Transformation, Andrea Gamson talks to Amy Barbor, founder of Niya Associates, about the uncomfortable - but necessary - work of understanding racism and moving from good intentions to anti-racist practice. Particularly as white leaders.

Amy's journey into this work began through her career in social justice, international aid and social enterprise. While working at the School for Social Entrepreneurs, she became increasingly interested in the experiences of global majority social entrepreneurs navigating predominantly white organisations and programmes. That led her into research, co-design and eventually into specialising in racial equity and anti-racism work.

The conversation explores why racism needs to be understood as a system rather than simply a personality flaw, why good intentions don't necessarily prevent harm, and why white people need to be willing to examine their own behaviours rather than only identifying racism in other people.

Amy also explains why she and her associates run a dedicated programme for white people and a specific programme for people from the global majority, why creating spaces where people can be honest and uncomfortable can enable deeper learning, and why she believes white people can often go further in their anti-racist practice when they aren't worried about being judged in the room.

We talk about:

•⁠ ⁠Moving from good intentions to anti-racist practice

•⁠ ⁠The difference between intent and impact

•⁠ ⁠Understanding racism as a system rather than a personal character flaw

•⁠ ⁠What "global majority" means and why language matters

•⁠ ⁠Why Amy works specifically with white people on anti-racist practice

•⁠ ⁠The discomfort of examining our own racial conditioning

•⁠ ⁠Why belonging isn't simply about making everyone feel comfortable

•⁠ ⁠Creating organisational cultures where people can challenge and be held accountable

•⁠ ⁠What white leaders need to examine in themselves

•⁠ ⁠The relationship between leadership, curiosity and difficult feedback

•⁠ ⁠Why bringing more diverse people into a broken organisational culture isn't enough

•⁠ ⁠The problem of performative allyship

•⁠ ⁠What Black and brown colleagues may be navigating inside predominantly white workplaces

•⁠ ⁠Why social enterprises aren't automatically immune from racism

•⁠ ⁠Amy's own leadership edge: becoming more visible and using her voice publicly

•⁠ ⁠And the final challenge: is doing the work ultimately easier than resisting it?

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The Edge of Transformation is hosted by Andrea Gamson, author of Social Starters: Make Changing The World Your Business and founder of Regenerous.

This podcast explores the people, ideas and uncomfortable questions that sit at the edge of personal, professional and systemic transformation.