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Entangled Futures

Entangled Futures

著者： Lucas Tauil
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 A podcast exploring Mutuality


Conversations towards a world that work for everyone


About us


Entangled Futures is a podcast exploring the world of mutuality, produced by Lucas Tauil.

Engaging in conversation with the people shaping collective spaces, we aim to identify adjacent possibilities— new opportunities for collaboration and innovation—that nourish a planet where everyone can thrive.

This work is the result of the excellence and dedication of an amazing team: Ira Nezhynska led the design, Kika created the music, Clara Chemin was the narrator, Paul d'Aoust developed the website, Mamading Ceesay handled the infrastructure, Matthew Nichols took care of integration and Jonathan Patecki edited the animations.


Support us


Come together! Help us bring the next season to life. You can support the show with a credit card on our Patreon page, (https://patreon.com/EntangledFutures) or with crypto using the Ethereum wallet, ENS: entangledfutures.eth.


0x24055dB18b971f24C3BFAB623A24Ee6c2b04F921


Sponsored by


The show is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that helps people team up, share information, and solve their own problems together—without needing a middle-man. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality.


Host


Lucas Tauil is a trained, and seasoned communicator focused on participative culture and collaboration. Connected to the world of sustainability and decentralised technology he has worked as a Journalist for two decades in mainstream media.

Working with the power of difference and collective intelligence on multiple stakeholders organisations since 2001, Lucas is part of Enspiral, a collective of people working on stuff that matters.

Together with his partner Sandra Chemin and eight other families, Lucas co-founded Quintal Magico, a communitarian Steiner school in Paraty, Brazil. The couple sailed for six years with their two daughters from England to New Zealand.

©2025 Lucas Tauil 政治・政府 社会科学
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  • Going Horizontal: Indigenous Wisdom, Listening & the Future of Work

    Going Horizontal: Indigenous Wisdom, Listening & the Future of Work
    2025/09/11
    Samantha Slade, author of Going Horizontal and co-founder of Percolab, shares her journey from education and anthropology into pioneering participatory leadership and practical ways to work together.Slade reflects on how early life experiences—from teaching in remote Canadian communities to witnessing a revolution in Central America—shaped her views on power, courage, and the need for authenticity in the workplace. Samantha discusses how horizontal practices can transform organizations, why listening is the foundation of collaboration, and how Indigenous traditions influence her approach to leadership and organizational design.Together, we explore:Rethinking Hierarchy – Why organizations don’t need to be monarchies to be effective.The Power of Listening – How listening culture creates psychological safety and shared responsibility.Indigenous Wisdom – Lessons from Indigenous practices on stewardship, spirit, and complexity.Abundance Mindset – Power and knowledge as renewable and expansive resources.Care & Productivity – How relational well-being directly fuels organizational outcomes.Watch this episode on YouTubeListen on: [Apple Podcasts] | Spotify | [Pocket Casts] | [RSS Feed]ThemesHorizontal Leadership – Moving from command-and-control to collaborative structures.Courage & Authenticity – Bringing full humanity, including difficult emotions, into the workplace.Indigenous Practices – Integrating stewardship, reciprocity, and spirit into modern organizations.Listening as a Practice – Developing cultures of deep listening to build trust and effectiveness.Abundance & Power – Reframing power as limitless and collective rather than scarce.Care & Productivity – Understanding care not as a distraction but as the driver of engagement.TimestampsBeginnings & Inspirations00:00 — Welcome & Introduction of Samantha Slade00:39 — From education to questioning hierarchy02:48 — Founding Percolab as an applied research labEarly Life & Formative Experiences05:45 — Teaching in a fly-in community in Northern Canada07:56 — Witnessing revolution and resilience in Nicaragua09:40 — Surviving a human trafficking attempt and finding courage13:24 — Reconnecting authenticity and emotions in workspacesWorkplace Dynamics & Horizontal Practices16:19 — Why workplaces are monarchies, not democracies17:56 — Gallup research on global employee disengagement19:09 — Small shifts that transform organizational culture21:01 — Talking circles and conflict resolution in practiceAbundance, Reciprocity & Indigenous Wisdom22:50 — Open-sourcing practices & shifting from scarcity to abundance24:30 — Standing on the shoulders of cultural traditions26:20 — Why Going Horizontal is an action, not a destination29:10 — Scaling collaboration: from small groups to large organizationsTrust, Structure & Leadership35:36 — Building conditions for trust in organizations37:00 — Horizontal systems are structured, not structureless39:56 — Key diagnostic: listening culture as a first step42:28 — “Listen For” – a game to cultivate listening practicesCare, Power & Decolonization43:46 — Why care and productivity belong together47:32 — Navigating crises collectively, not alone50:25 — Power as abundant rather than scarce54:09 — Decolonizing organizational practices59:18 — Stewardship and the “Keeper of Spirit” roleSuccess Stories & Closing Reflections01:06:58 — Revitalizing Inuit language and agency through strategic planning01:12:56 — Shifting from performative to well-being indicators01:16:05 — Closing gratitude & reflectionsReferences📖 Going Horizontal: Creating a Non-Hierarchical Organization, One Practice at a Time – Samantha Slade📚 Tyson Yunkaporta – Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World📚 David Snowden – Work on complexity and sense-making📖 Wade Davis – The Wayfinders: Why Ancient Wisdom Matters in the Modern World📚 Otto Scharmer – Theory UTranscriptLucas Tauil (00:02.044)Today we welcome Samantha Slade, author of Going Horizontal, creating a non-hierarchical organization, one practice at a time. Samantha Slade is the co-founder of the Percolab, where she pioneers culture-driven practices and operational tools to grow participatory leadership. Sam, such an honor to have you here. Welcome.Samantha Slade (00:28.066)Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here.Lucas Tauil (00:31.325)Could you start by sharing a bit about your journey and what first drew you into working with horizontal organizations?Samantha Slade (00:39.98)Hmm. Where to start? How far back should I go? So I mean, I can start with a professional worker, Samantha. My first career was in the realm of education and I was very successful in it and went up the ladder. And as I went up, I just kept feeling stranger and stranger inside my belly that something was amiss, that this wasn't howthe world was supposed to work. This wasn't how I was designed to function. And until after...
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    1 時間 15 分
  • Economies That Flow: An Open Source Blueprint

    Economies That Flow: An Open Source Blueprint
    2025/09/04
    In this episode, Lynn Foster—champion of open-source software and co-author of the Value Flows vocabulary—shares her journey from corporate software development to creating commons-based economic infrastructures. She explains how Value Flows provides a shared language for representing economic activity, enabling projects and organizations to coordinate without relying on siloed systems. At the heart of this work is REA accounting (Resources, Events, Agents), an elegant model that traces real-world flows of resources and interactions across networks.Foster explains how Value Flows and REA accounting enable interoperability across distributed systems and why ontologies, that is shared vocabularies are critical for both people and software to communicate effectively. She also reflects on the real-world impact of projects such as cooperative supply chains and regenerative networks.Lynn Foster explores:Code vs. Community – How open-source software becomes powerful when a community organizes around it.From ERP to REA – Why flow-based accounting creates clarity across networks and ecosystems.Networks of Networks – The potential of Value Flows and Holochain integration to connect grassroots initiatives.Watch this episode on YouTubeListen to this episode:Apple Podcasts • Spotify • Pocket Casts • RSS FeedThemes:Open Source as Commons – How shared vocabularies and cooperative communities make technology durable.Ontologies & Interoperability – Why common data meanings allow software ecosystems to plug and play.Flow-Based Accounting (REA/Value Flows) – Moving beyond double-entry into transparent, cross-network flows.Distributed Architectures – What makes Holochain different and better suited for decentralized collaboration.Regenerative Supply Chains – Lessons from the Carbon Farm Network and other next-economy experiments.Contribution Economies – Models that reward contributions fairly and support resilience.Timestamps:Origins & Foundations00:00 — Opening reflections on open source as a growing seed01:53 — Lynn’s background and introduction to Value Flows & hREA03:07 — Leaving corporate software to build economic commons04:35 — First “aha moment” in open source: a stranger contributes a logo05:08 — The difference between open source code and open source communityValue Flows & Ontologies06:20 — The Open App Ecosystem: modular tools like Lego blocks06:52 — Why vocabularies are needed for interoperability07:40 — APIs vs. shared vocabularies: simplifying collaboration08:17 — Ten years of Value Flows: what has evolvedPatterns & Flows08:40 — Conway’s Law: communication shapes technology10:30 — Supply chains and the shift from “best company” to “best supply chain”11:16 — Trust and transparency across enterprises12:20 — Expanding the surface of cooperation rather than competingREA & Network Resource Planning13:50 — REA explained: Resources, Events, Agents15:35 — Three layers: policy, planning, and observation16:55 — Directed graphs: tracing resource provenance and flows18:10 — From ERP’s silos to NRP’s networks19:30 — Working with Sensorica on open hardware and contribution accountingOntologies in Practice21:09 — What ontologies are and why they matter22:53 — Shared meaning for humans and software alike24:28 — Configurability and taxonomies: flexibility without lock-in26:54 — Digital Product Passports in the EU as a use caseDistributed Systems & Carbon Farm Network27:58 — What makes Holochain unique: no central servers29:35 — Using Value Flows to connect Holochain networks31:30 — hREA as a generic backend for many user experiences31:55 — Case study: the Carbon Farm Network in New York33:21 — Supporting sustainability and local supply chains34:46 — Challenges: funding cuts, infrastructure closures, systemic inequality36:30 — Possibilities for cooperative ownership of spinning millsBroader Applications & Future Directions38:45 — Offers/Needs apps, mutual credit, barter, and gift economies40:58 — Contribution economies and benefit distribution algorithms42:10 — EU projects: Reflow, Fab City, and The Weathermakers43:50 — Expanding agents/resources to rivers, forests, carbon, nitrogen45:46 — Regional planning and resilience after crises47:28 — Building relationships now for resilience in uncertain futures49:41 — Small pieces of the puzzle: upward spirals of collaboration51:00 — Closing reflections on the importance of collective effortReferences:REA Accounting Model – Bill McCarthyValue Flows Vocabulary – Co-created by Lynn Foster, Bob Haugen, and collaboratorsDigital Product Passports (EU Initiative) – Ongoing regulatory frameworkSensorica – Open value network experiments in contribution accountingTranscriptLynn Foster (00:00.076)I think open source is one of these seeds that's kind of growing within the beast, so to speak, where it organically appears and it wants to be born. It takes us beyond the...
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    52 分
  • Reciprocal Obligations: The Heart of Mutualism

    Reciprocal Obligations: The Heart of Mutualism
    2025/08/28
    Sara Horowitz, founder of the Freelancers Union and author of 'Mutualism: Building the New Economy from the Ground Up', shares her journey into mutualism.Horowitz is a former chair of the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and a recipient of the MacArthur Fellowship. Her work has been covered by NPR, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Atlantic, among other outlets. She describes herself as a lifelong mutualist and lives in Brooklyn, New York.Horowitz emphasizes the need for reciprocal obligations and community building, sharing insights from her family history and the experiences in creating the Freelancers Union Insurance Company. The conversation explores how we can learn from the past to build effective organizations and outlines a vision for a mutualist ecosystem. Watch this episode on YouTubeListen to this episode:Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsRSS Feed Themes:Mutualism as a framework – Understanding its three principles and how they differ from socialism or capitalism.Safety nets and reciprocity – Why peer-to-peer systems of care provide resilience in uncertain times.Historical lessons – From unions, Mondragon, and religious organizations to modern co-ops and movements.Patient capital – Models for financing ecosystems without extractive pressures.The role of government – Creating sandboxes, infrastructure, and scaling mutualist innovations.Self-determination and community – Finding your group, nurturing trust, and building resilience together.TImestamps:Opening & Context00:00 — Sara on neighbors, connection, and joy in supporting others00:41 — Lucas introduces the Holochain Foundation sponsor01:58 — Introducing Sara Horowitz, Freelancers Union founder & author of MutualismSara’s Journey into Mutualism03:25 — Family roots in unions and cooperatives05:19 — Rethinking safety nets: beyond government and charity07:23 — What we’ve lost in the social fabric of business and communityPrinciples & Practices of Mutualism09:22 — Defining mutualism: solidarity, economic mechanism, generational time horizon11:38 — Political homelessness & decentralized strategies13:34 — Reciprocal obligations: indivisible reserves, Green Bay Packers, and cooperative modelsBuilding Safety Nets Today15:48 — Learning from past cooperative institutions17:48 — Babysitting co-ops and neighborhood organizing19:44 — From transactional to relational economies21:27 — The founding of Freelancers Union & portable benefitsVision of Mutualist Ecosystems24:20 — Building networks and small beginnings26:16 — Practical examples: Molly Hempstreet & industrial cooperatives28:15 — Pillars of a mutualist ecosystem: organizations, government, training, capital30:18 — Patient capital: seedling stage, fellowships, program-related investmentsRole of Government & Institutions35:03 — Sandboxes, safe spaces, and infrastructure36:54 — Religious organizations and mutualist hard-coding39:20 — Disaster recovery & the risks of outsourcing mutual aidScaling Mutualism41:32 — Scale as mycelial networks and feedback loops43:48 — Trust as the foundation of markets and democracyChallenges & Future Directions45:53 — Where to start: local communities, co-ops, book groups47:52 — Distinguishing mutualism from socialism and communism49:38 — Wealth concentration & collective survival51:26 — Unusual alliances: bridging divides through shared needs53:34 — Self-determination, faith, and forgiveness in hard timesClosing54:59 — Beginners in mutualism: the courage to start55:46 — Farewell & invitation to join the Mutualist SocietyResources & References:📖 Mutualism: Building the Next Economy from the Ground Up – Sara Horowitz 📜 The Rochdale Principles – Early cooperative movement guidelines 📚 Mondragon Cooperative Model – Basque Country, Spain📚 United Mine Workers of America – Historical labor organizing📖 The 10 Laws of Trust: Building the Bonds That Make a Business Great📖 The End of History and the Last Man – Francis Fukuyama📚 Ashoka & Echoing Green – Fellowship programs for social entrepreneursTranscriptSara Horowitz (00:00.088)You better really be connected to your neighbors. You really have to start to know the people around you and be connected to them in a peer-to-peer way because you don't know when you're going to need help. And it turns out supporting other people is probably one of the best things you can do to give your life joy.Narrator - Clara CheminWelcome to Entangled Futures with Lucas Tauil, where we explore mutuality and conversations towards a world that works for everyone.Lucas Tauil (00:41.4)This episode is brought to you by the Holochain Foundation. Holochain is creating technology that allows people to team up, share information, and solve their own problems without needing a middleman. Creating carriers that cannot be captured, Holochain enables privacy and holds space for innovation and mutuality. I first came ...
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    56 分
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