Why does it sometimes take life falling apart before we start actually living it?

We start with a quote about being human and end up talking about telling people we love them while they’re still here, why we can’t fix everyone’s problems, and accepting the versions of ourselves we’d rather keep hidden.

Derek shares the message he sent his grandad. Dawn talks about finally believing a friend actually wanted to be her friend. And we get onto the people who change our lives just by showing up — sometimes with nothing more complicated than “come for a walk with me”.

Which brings us to Charlie. We all need one.

There’s also a detour into Mormon cults that Derek really would rather we hadn’t taken.

Here is the quote from the start:

"WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BE?" I WANT TO BE HUMAN.TO FEEL THE SUNRISE, FALL IN LOVE WITH SILENCE, AND NOTICE FLOWERS GROWING THROUGH CONCRETE.I DON'T WANT TO TRADE MY SOUL FOR SURVIVAL, MY DREAMS FOR SECURITY, OR MY PRESENT FOR A FUTURE I MAY BE TOO EXHAUSTED TO ENJOY.IN A WORLD THAT MEASURES WORTH BY PRODUCTIVITY, PERHAPS BEING HUMAN IS AN ACT OF REBELLION.I WANT A HEART THAT STILL FEELS, EYES THAT STILL LOOK UP, AND A SOUL THAT NEVER STOPS WONDERING.BECAUSE WHAT IS THE POINT OF CONQUERING THE WORLD IF I FORGET HOW TO EXPERIENCE IT?

Two friends. Two very different perspectives. No script and absolutely no guarantee we'll stay on topic.

Dawn's a trauma therapist. Derek isn't. We talk about psychology, life, relationships, the stuff we've got right, the stuff we've got spectacularly wrong — and whatever else comes up along the way.

Sometimes we agree. Sometimes we really don't.

Essentially, it's the conversation you'd overhear at the next table and find yourself listening to.