Fresh off France’s Six Nations win, I sat down with my old mate Shaun Edwards for a rare, wide-ranging conversation.

This isn’t just an interview — it’s two lads from Wigan catching up after decades walking very different, but strangely parallel paths. Both of us came up through rugby, through hard graft and old-school values. But over time, we’ve both had to evolve. As coaches. As leaders. As men.

We talked about it all, from the early days and the systems that changed the game, to fear, fatherhood, grief, and what it means to lead with heart, not just tactics.

Shaun opened up in a way I don’t think many have heard before. And for me, this episode felt special.

We get into:
Why Shaun hates losing more than he loves winning
What fear can teach you and where it can fuck you
How he sees leadership and masculinity now
The shift from hardness to softness
Coaching at the highest level, and what really drives performance

If you’re interested in what makes a great coach, a great team, or just a good man, this one’s worth a listen.

The Making of a Competitor

• Growing up in Wigan, and early life lessons from his dad
• Why grief became a driving force
• The difference between rugby league and union — and what it taught him

Coaching with Fire

• The early years at Wasps and Wales
• Lessons from working with Gatland, Farrell and co
• What still motivates him after all these years

A Brother Beyond Rugby

• The early days of my friendship with Shaun
• What we’ve learned from each other and where our paths crossed again
• The moment he started embracing softness

Leadership that Lasts

• What players really need from a coach today
• The evolution of Shaun’s leadership style
• Why presence, empathy and intuition matter more than ever

From the outside, Jeremy Bettle had it all — a high-profile career in elite sport, working with some of the world’s most successful athletes and organisations. But behind the scenes, he was running on empty.

In this episode, Jeremy shares the quiet crisis that brought him to a breaking point, and the path he took to rebuild a life rooted in presence, truth, and vitality.

We talk about:

• The cost of performing and pushing for too long
• Why success without meaning leads to burnout
• Letting go of identity and walking into the unknown
• The medicine in movement, men’s work, and Peru
• What it means to build a life from the inside out

This is a conversation about what happens when men stop chasing and start feeling — and the freedom that follows.

The Build-up to Burnout

• Jeremy’s rise through elite sport and performance coaching
• The moment he realised success wasn’t enough
• How professional ambition can become emotional suppression

Breaking the Pattern

• The physical and emotional signals he could no longer ignore
• Walking away from what looked like a dream job
• The fear and freedom of not knowing what’s next

Reconnection and Recovery

• Why movement, breathwork and brotherhood became vital
• Insights from ICONIC and the Peru men’s retreat
• Letting go of roles, pressure, and performance

A New Way of Living

• Learning to listen to the body
• Rebuilding from purpose, not pressure
• What high performers need to hear — and unlearn

Movement is more than just physical. It’s emotional. Energetic. Transformational.

In this episode, I’m joined by my good friend and co-facilitator of the ICONIC program, Martin Bone. We explore the deeper meaning of movement and dance, not as performance, but as a powerful doorway back into the body.

For many men, especially those raised in the UK and Ireland, movement became linear - lifting weights, pushing harder, always doing. But in that, freedom, expression, and spontaneity got lost.

We talk about how reclaiming movement helped us both heal old wounds, reconnect with our emotions, and become better leaders, fathers, partners, and men.

This conversation is about breaking the stigma, getting over yourself, and remembering the body knows what to do... if you let it!

Show Notes

The Stigma Around Dance and Expression

• Why so many men freeze at the idea of dancing
• How childhood and culture taught us to suppress movement
• Craig and Martin’s early experiences with dance, shame and identity

Dance as a Doorway Back to the Body

• Movement as medicine for emotion, stress, and stuckness
• Why the body holds wisdom that the mind can’t access
• The link between dance, emotional release, and inner freedom

From Raves to Retreats

• The role of club culture and music in helping men reconnect with their bodies
• How early experiences with dance music created space for self-expression
• The transition from unconscious release to conscious embodiment

Why Movement Belongs in Men’s Work

• How the ICONIC retreat in Peru uses movement to create real transformation
• Why most men’s breakthroughs come through the body, not the mind
• Creating safe spaces where men can move, feel, express without being judged

How to Start

• Simple ways men can reconnect with movement and shake off years of stiffness
• The importance of containers, consistency, and community
• Letting go of the need to ‘know how’ and learning to trust the body again.