After the last two episodes of telling their stories, Kari and Kimberly return to the present. What do they actually believe now, and where do they agree and disagree?

Kari and Kimberly discuss: the existence of God, the nature of faith, how we know what we know, and what it means to hold beliefs responsibly when those beliefs affect the people around us.

Kari still believes in a God who loves his children and communicates with them. Kimberly is drawn to something — a mystery, a consciousness, a universe — but doesn't necessarily call it God. They disagree on prophets, on the church, and on whether organized religion does more good than harm.

And then they close on the one thing they do agree on: that any God worth worshiping cares most about how we treat each other.

This is what it looks like when two people love each other more than they love being right.

Content note: This episode contains references to suicidal thoughts. Please take care of yourself as you listen.

Last week, Kimberly told her story. This week, it's Kari's turn.

Kari grew up immersed in the LDS (then "Mormon") church and culture with pioneer ancestors, temple sealings, road shows, ward dinners... Her faith was so woven into her life that questioning it never crossed her mind. She married young, had six children, and built what looked, from the outside, exactly like the Mormon dream.

And then her oldest child left the church and barely spoke to the family for the next few years.

In this episode, Kari shares how that broke her. She discusses the grief that went to her bones, the depression she had carried for years but never named, and the moment she found herself weighing whether her children would be better off without her. She talks about what it took to find her way back and the changes she had to make along the way.

This episode explains why Kari does the work she does, and why it's so important to her to help LDS mothers who are suffering in silence to know that they are not alone, and that there is a way to hold onto their faith AND their children who have left the church.

Estrangement. It's the word nobody wants to say out loud, and the reality too many LDS families are quietly living.

In this episode, Kari and Kimberly get into what actually causes families to break apart when a child leaves the church, and what it takes to find your way back to each other. They talk about the difference between protecting your child and controlling them, between holding your breath for the prodigal son to come home and actually loving the person standing in front of you right now.

They discuss what to do when you're the only one doing the healing work, how to set boundaries without cutting people off, why apologizing to your children is one of the most powerful things a parent can do, and what it means to find joy in your life while you're waiting for a relationship to repair itself.

Most LDS parents of children who have left the church are searching for one thing: how to bring their children back. Kari and Kimberly offer something better.

In this episode, Kari and Kimberly talk honestly about what it cost to get to where they are today and what they have learned loving each other across the faith divide. They discuss the grief, guilt and fear that can divide a family when a member chooses to leave, and how they overcame it all together.

Their story is not like the prodigal son story, where a parent waits for their child to come back and admit they are right. Their story follows an alternative route. A relationship that is real, close, and full of love. Right now. As things actually are.

If you are an LDS parent who is grieving your child's faith transition, or an adult child who is afraid your family can only love the version of you that stayed, this conversation is for you.

Content note: This episode contains references to sexual assault and suicidal thoughts. Please take care of yourself as you listen.

In this episode Kimberly tells her faith story in complete for the very first time. She traces her faith journey from a baptism interview at age eight where she first understood she had a choice, through a turbulent adolescence shaped by strict rules, broken trust, and a painful experience she couldn't talk to anyone about, to the moment her shelf finally broke and she decided she would never return to the church.

But this episode is about more than faith deconstruction. It's about what happens to a mother and daughter relationship when rule-following becomes more important than safety, when fear of a child leaving the church quietly destroys the very thing it was meant to protect, and what it takes to find your way back to each other.

Kari and Kimberly don't pull their punches. They don't pretend it was fine. And at the end, they say I love you and mean it.

If you are an LDS mother who is afraid of losing your child, this episode is for you. If you are an adult child who has never been able to find the words to help your mother understand, this episode might say them for you

What do you get when a lifelong LDS mother and her daughter who left the church sit down to talk honestly about faith, family, and everything in between? Coffee and Cocoa.

Kari is a family relationships coach who stayed in the church after all six of her children left. Kimberly is her daughter, who nearly cut off her entire family a decade ago but chose to fight for the relationship instead. Together they've built something neither of them expected — a family that is closer, more honest, and more loving than ever before.

In this introduction episode, Kari and Kimberly share how this podcast came to be, what you can expect from their conversations, and why they believe that different beliefs don't have to mean a broken family.

If you're an LDS mother who is losing her child to faith deconstruction, OR an adult child who wishes your family could really hear you — pull up a chair. Grab your coffee, or your cocoa. This one's for you.