After the last two episodes of telling their stories, Kari and Kimberly return to the present. What do they actually believe now, and where do they agree and disagree?

Kari and Kimberly discuss: the existence of God, the nature of faith, how we know what we know, and what it means to hold beliefs responsibly when those beliefs affect the people around us.

Kari still believes in a God who loves his children and communicates with them. Kimberly is drawn to something — a mystery, a consciousness, a universe — but doesn't necessarily call it God. They disagree on prophets, on the church, and on whether organized religion does more good than harm.

And then they close on the one thing they do agree on: that any God worth worshiping cares most about how we treat each other.

This is what it looks like when two people love each other more than they love being right.

Content note: This episode contains references to suicidal thoughts. Please take care of yourself as you listen.

Last week, Kimberly told her story. This week, it's Kari's turn.

Kari grew up immersed in the LDS (then "Mormon") church and culture with pioneer ancestors, temple sealings, road shows, ward dinners... Her faith was so woven into her life that questioning it never crossed her mind. She married young, had six children, and built what looked, from the outside, exactly like the Mormon dream.

And then her oldest child left the church and barely spoke to the family for the next few years.

In this episode, Kari shares how that broke her. She discusses the grief that went to her bones, the depression she had carried for years but never named, and the moment she found herself weighing whether her children would be better off without her. She talks about what it took to find her way back and the changes she had to make along the way.

This episode explains why Kari does the work she does, and why it's so important to her to help LDS mothers who are suffering in silence to know that they are not alone, and that there is a way to hold onto their faith AND their children who have left the church.

Estrangement. It's the word nobody wants to say out loud, and the reality too many LDS families are quietly living.

In this episode, Kari and Kimberly get into what actually causes families to break apart when a child leaves the church, and what it takes to find your way back to each other. They talk about the difference between protecting your child and controlling them, between holding your breath for the prodigal son to come home and actually loving the person standing in front of you right now.

They discuss what to do when you're the only one doing the healing work, how to set boundaries without cutting people off, why apologizing to your children is one of the most powerful things a parent can do, and what it means to find joy in your life while you're waiting for a relationship to repair itself.