Josh Harris sits down with author Brian Recker to talk honestly about hell, deconstruction, and what remains when fear-based religion falls apart.

Together, they explore the grief of losing religious community, the courage it takes to rethink deeply held beliefs, and why so many people feel spiritually homeless after walking away from traditional evangelical structures.

Brian and Josh unpack how the doctrine of hell has shaped Christian mission, identity, and urgency, often at the expense of love, justice, and inclusion. They revisit Jesus’ teachings on Gehenna, the “narrow gate,” and the cross, placing them back in their historical context and asking what they actually reveal about God, power, and resistance.

About Brian Recker

Brian Recker is a former Marine officer, the son of a Baptist preacher, and a graduate of Bob Jones University. He spent eight years as an evangelical pastor before undergoing a profound deconstruction of his faith and moving toward a more inclusive, love-centered spirituality.

Today, Brian speaks openly about following Jesus without fear of hell through his writing and social platforms, including his Substack, Beloved. His book, Hell Bent, challenges one of Christianity’s most deeply embedded doctrines and argues that fear has distorted the heart of the gospel. Released on September 30, Hell Bent quickly became a USA Today best-seller.

Brian lives in Raleigh, North Carolina, and is a father of four.

Connect with Brian

• Substack – Beloved: https://brianrecker.substack.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/berecker/?hl=en
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@berecker87
• His book "Hell Bent": ⁠https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/771172/hell-bent-by-brian-recker/

What if the goal isn’t to break a strong-willed child but to nurture that untamed will into something beautiful?

That’s the question parenting coach Amy Hughes keeps asking—and it has taken her far beyond the “strong-willed child” playbook popularized by Dr. James Dobson. In this conversation Amy and Josh explore a gentler, truly Christian vision of authority, discipline, and discipleship—one that treats kids as whole people made in God’s image.

• How “conscious parenting” reframes discipline as connection first, correction second

• Why words like “good” or “bad” can warp a child’s sense of God and themselves

• The hidden damage of fear-based obedience inside church culture

• Practical ways to coach (not crush) a strong-willed kid

• Repairing relationships with older children through humble apologies

• Trusting God’s sovereignty over your child’s spiritual journey instead of micromanaging it

Amy is a certified conscious-parenting coach who helps moms and dads move from control and coercion to curiosity and connection. Drawing on her faith and years of mentoring families, she equips parents to raise confident, compassionate kids and to enjoy the process along the way.

Connect with Amy:

• Instagram: @simplelittleamy

• Website & coaching resources

Content note: This episode includes frank discussion of sex, pornography, and religious control.

Author Ben Crawford spent decades inside a tight church network where life, money, and meaning were all centralized. When he started sharing his life on YouTube and telling the truth in 12-step rooms, the system pushed back. He lost community, business ties, and friends. He also found something bigger: a voice, a marriage that’s alive, and a way of connecting that doesn’t hide behind ideas. This is a conversation about escaping control, learning vulnerability, and why honesty beats “accountability” every time.

Topics we cover

• Preaching vs sharing: why ideas felt safe and intimacy didn’t

• The men’s “accountability” script and why it blocks connection

• What 12-step groups modeled: clear truth, no fixing, real safety

• The “cult continuum” and how control shows up in everyday church life

• Grading communities by behavior, not labels

• Choosing where to be authentic and where to hold boundaries

• Ben’s love story with Cami and the surprising payoff of telling the truth
  

Why listen

If you’ve felt the gap between what your community promised and what it delivered, or if you’ve tried to change people with ideas and missed the chance to actually bond, this episode gives language and practices for a different way forward.

About Ben

Ben Crawford is the author of the bestselling 2000 Miles Together: The Story of the Largest Family to Hike the Appalachian Trail and has been featured on Good Morning America and NPR’s This American Life. Formerly entrenched in fundamentalist religion and once at the helm of one of the world’s largest blackjack teams (profiled in the documentary Holy Rollers: The True Story of Card Counting Christians), Ben brings a singular perspective to faith, risk, and reinvention. Retired in his 30s, he’s a prolific YouTuber with 1,000+ uploads, and he now finds joy in poker and marathon running—with his six kids often along for the mile markers.

Links

• Ben’s book: The Courage to Share (affiliate link)

  Ben’s YouTube family channel: https://www.youtube.com/@FightforTogether