The Herle Burly was created by Air Quotes Media with support from our presenting sponsor TELUS, as well as CN Rail.

Greetings, you curiouser and curiouser Herle Burly-ites! Back in July, the Wall Street Journal ran a striking series on how Europe is quietly rethinking its arrangements with the world to counter a changing, increasingly predatory United States. And surprisingly, named Mark Carney as one of the leaders pushing Europe in that direction, pointing back to his Davos speech and his idea of "variable geometry" alliances replacing the old hub-and-spoke reliance on Washington.

We want to explore these themes: what does it means for institutions like NATO and the G7 to become secondary to newer, looser alignments? How does the Western world meet the challenge of China going forward? And what does all of this mean for Canada's economy and its place in the world?

To dig into it, we bring in two brilliant people today: Jennifer Welsh and Colin Robertson.

Jennifer Welsh is a four-time guest of the pod, Rhodes Scholar, co-founder of the Oxford Institute for Ethics, Law and Armed Conflict. Currently, the Director of the Max Bell School of Public Policy at McGill University.

And making his first appearance, Colin Robertson. He served as a Canadian diplomat for over 30 years. He helped negotiate the original Canada/U.S. Free Trade Agreement and NAFTA. Currently, he’s a Fellow at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute and host of its Global Exchange podcast.

They dig into why countries from Europe to Australia to South Korea are hedging their bets on America, what "variable geometry" actually looks like in practice, whether the G7 and G20 are still fit for the world we live in, and some genuinely concrete questions too. Like whether Canada should still buy the F-35, and why Mexico deserves to be treated as a real ally rather than a partner of convenience.

A fascinating, wide-ranging conversation about what's replacing the old international order, and Canada's surprising role at the centre of it. Stay with us for the hour.

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