Listening back to this conversation with Amy Stone a year after we recorded it, what struck me most is how much of my story is really a story about frustration. Not frustration as a problem to fix, but frustration as the thing that has prompted almost every pivot I've made — from journalism to ministry, from church administration to yoga teacher training, and finally to founding Defy the Trend. Amy has a gift for drawing out the best nuggets from a person’s story, and in this episode she pulls the thread through nearly all of mine, landing me right where I am today: an imperfectly adulting burnout recovery coach and sustainability strategist who believes rest is liberation.

This episode is part of my summer playlist series, where I'm re-sharing some of my favorite conversations from guesting on other podcasts this past year. I'm so grateful to Amy for creating a space where I could go deep on faith, burnout, and the "both/and" mindset that changed everything for me.

What we talked about in this episode:

• My career journey from journalist to minister to burnout recovery coach
• The inside story of church administration — institutional resistance, advocating for change, and where that frustration led me
• How burnout showed up in ministry, and why yoga became a lifeline and a "both/and" practice
• Leaning on spiritual practice to move through tough, high-pressure decisions
• Leaving the church as a disgruntled teen, and finding my way back to faith and community decades later
• Real talk on salaries and sustainability in faith-based work
• The moment mid-yoga-practice when "either/or" cracked open into "both/and" — and how that became the seed of Defy the Trend
• Where my work, my podcast, and this "both/and" philosophy stand today

Chapters:

00:00 Intro to The Art of Imperfect Adulting

00:53 Amy's Into to Nicole's Journey

03:50 Warm-up: Words of Kindness

05:50 Frustration that Lead to a Pivot

09:11 Cause of Frustration

10:45 Navigating Resistance in Innovation

12:30 Hiring in the Church

20:36 Structural Support for Innovation

21:48 Religion: A hot button and good case study

29:45 Nicole's Quarter Life Crisis of Faith

36:40 What Working for the Church is Like

41:41 Yoga in Nicole's Path

46:23 Yoga and Ministry: Both/And

52:40 Life as a Burnout Recovery Coach

54:35 Nicole's Podcast Journey

56:26 Fun Questions

59:23 Graititude

Connect with Amy Stone, Host, The Art of Imperfect Adulting):

• Website: https://www.imperfectadulting.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theartof_imperfect_adulting
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectadulting
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@imperfectadulting
• Support the show: https://imperfect-adulting.captivate.fm/support

CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA:

• Newsletter: https://defythetrend.substack.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-havelka-35762022/
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/just-rest.bsky.social
• Work with Nicole: https://defythetrend.com/contact/
• Leave a Voice Memo: http://speakpipe.com/justrest

Send me a message via Speakpipe.

A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.