Former transportation executive Marc Luiken joins Mandy and Trish to share his battle-tested strategy for turning "work obligations" into high-performance culture zones. If you’re tired of meetings that feel like a waste of time, this episode is your manual for change.

In this episode, we break down:

• The "Rank-Free" Zone: Why the best ideas happen when titles are left at the door.

• ELMO to the Rescue: How to use the "Enough, Let’s Move On" card to kill circular discussions.

• Healthy Conflict: Why trust is the secret ingredient to productive disagreement.

• The Parking Lot: A scrappy builder’s tool for keeping the main thing the main thing.

Bonus Resource: We’ve included a link in the show notes to Marc’s "Rules for Meetings" guide—a fully accessibility-compliant PDF you can download and drop into your team’s Slack or Teams channel today.

Stop surviving your meetings and start leading them. 🚀

TL;DR - Leadership is not just strategy and structure. It is showing up when life hits hard. Kelly Hutchinson shares what happens when public service becomes deeply personal, and why the most important leadership moments often happen off the org chart.In this episode, Kelly Hutchinson joins us to talk about what really happens when leadership stops being theoretical and starts getting personal.We explore the moments that don’t make it into performance reviews or press releases. Family emergencies. Teammates stepping up without being asked. The quiet, human decisions leaders make when policy meets real life.Kelly shares stories from her career in transportation that highlight resilience, trust, and the responsibility that comes with leading people, not just projects. We talk about what went right, what went wrong, and how perspective shifts when you realize that the work is important, but the people are everything.From big industry challenges to small acts of humanity, this conversation reminds us that transportation is not just infrastructure. It is community. It is service. It is showing up for each other.It’s a conversation about heart, leadership under pressure, and the real people behind the cones.

TL;DR: If you’re navigating constant change, supporting others through it, and still expected to keep things moving, this episode is for you.

This conversation offers a grounded take on leadership, resilience, and purpose in the space where real decisions get made.

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Most leadership doesn’t happen in big moments or bold declarations. It happens between strategy and delivery, between plans and pavement, where the pressure is steady and the work doesn’t slow down.

In this episode of Between Two Cones, we dig into what it takes to lead in that space with clarity and intention. Christine Hetzel from the Vermont Agency of Transportation brings a systems-level perspective shaped by her work in workforce planning and leadership development, sharing how strengths-based leadership and purposeful decision-making help teams stay steady through ongoing change.

This isn’t a conversation about having all the answers. It’s about making thoughtful tradeoffs, building real capacity, and staying grounded when expectations are high and certainty is in short supply.

If you’ve ever felt the weight of keeping things moving while navigating change yourself, you’ll recognize this terrain.

Because when the wind won’t stop blowing and the road keeps shifting, purpose is what keeps you in your lane.