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Michigan lawyer Patrick Barone is the third Beat the Prosecution podcast guest who has both attended the Trial Lawyers College and been active with the National College for DUI Defense. Patrick for years pursued a DWI defense focus before attending the TLC, and then he jumped both feet forward into intensive learning and training with psychodrama -- which is a major feature of the Trial Lawyers College that has been covered numerous times on this podcast -- becoming certified in psychodrama after many years of devoting substantial time to this approach of psychotherapy and working out challenges through role playing and reverse role playing, and much more. As his and his wife Elizabeth Corby's Michigan Psychodrama Center page says, Patrick is a Board Certified trainer, educator and practitioner of psychodrama, sociometry and group psychotherapy, which is no small feat to add to an already busy criminal defense law practice.

Listen as Patrick addresses with Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz how psychodrama can be used for lawyers to prepare their entire trial and courtroom presentations, and prepare their clients to testify. Patrick talks about the possibility of speaking from the first person as the breathalyzer machine in a DUI case, taking exception to the breath test operator who does not enable the machine to do its job properly by not inspecting the suspect's mouth for foreign objects, to preclude the machine from testing for mouth alcohol rather than deep lung alcohol.

Patrick tells of one instance about using psychodrama doubling to relate and connect directly with his client. He talks about using psychodrama on himself to work out his issues with authority, in order to unblock his challenging interactions with a judge he repeatedly encounters. He differentiates the difference between righteous indignation at a police officer during cross examination, and alienating jurors who do not perceive a justification to be indignant. He talks about advocating in the moment, and understanding others from their perspective and from putting ourselves into their shoes.

Beyond all that, Patrick talks of pursuing a pre-med path in college and then retooling to be a lawyer over such matters as his strong support for a robustly protected Second Amendment. He repeatedly writes about artificial intelligence for lawyers. His AI substack newsletter is at https://patrickbarone.substack.com Each month, he and his wife hold psychodrama sessions.

Patrick makes a good point that often the psychodramatists in the room are not lawyers, and the lawyers are usually not psychodramatists. He is both.

This Beat the Prosecution episode is also available on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPdJ-7Tf_Zc and https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-by-integrating-with-the-moment-patrick-barone/id1721413675?i=1000783081810

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Buddhist nun Venerable Thubten Chodron of Sravasti Abbey returns for a second time to talk with Fairfax, Virginia, criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz, this time to discuss Venerable's 2025 book incorporating experiential stories from inmates, and also the beautiful artwork by many of them, entitled The Key of Compassion- Finding Meaning Where You Least Expect It.

The ideal for a criminal defendant is to avoid conviction and incarceration. However, judges and court magistrates do not always grant pretrial release, and not all convicted people avoid incarceration. Consequently, this is the second Beat the Prosecution episode that removes the mystery about handling incarceration, and focuses on keeping grounded and resilient while detained. The first episode on that topic was with Fleet Maull, a dharma teacher who served a fourteen year sentence for a federal drug conviction at the end of the twentieth century. By removing the mystery of incarceration, criminal defendants can be bolder and more confident in fighting their prosecutions along with their lawyers.

Jon Katz first heard of Venerable Chodron from Rodger Kamenetz's The Jew In the Lotus (where Chris Berlin's description of the jewel in the lotus is "boundless compassion that is fully responsive to suffering and moves us to alleviate that suffering unconditionally and spontaneously as we encounter it" and where om mani padme hum apparently praises the jewel in the lotus). As it happened, when Jon first invited Venerable Chodron to this podcast, she and those at her abbey were already very involved with helping inmates, and The Key of Compassion was already in the works.

Jon Katz recommends donating to Sravasti Abbey's Prison Dharma Fund, reading The Key of Compassion and also donating the book to prisons and other detention centers, for the availability of inmates. The best way to learn how to donate spiritual books to detention centers is probably to contact the institution's chaplain.

This episode is also available on YouTube and Apple podcasts.

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Winning for criminal defendants integrates teaming up closely and well with our clients, life experience, successful trial experience, improving ourselves, and persuasively engaging others, for starters.

Our podcast guest Kimberly Benjamin, in Missouri, includes integrating the approaches of the Trial Lawyers College, the National College of DUI Defense and more to start obtaining justice for defendants even before any trial starts.

I first learned about Kim through our connection to the Trial Lawyers College, which she attended and where Kim ultimately joined the staff. How necessarily frank was Kim when walking into her first meeting of the Missouri criminal defense lawyers association, asking where were the women, and then soon becoming a member of its board.

This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjHDLhhePg0 and Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-before-trial-even-begins-kim-benjamin/id1721413675?i=1000777978177

Fairfax Criminal Lawyer / Virginia DUI Attorney Jonathan L. Katz pursues your best defense against felony, misdemeanor, DUI, drug & sex prosecutions. Defending in Fairfax County, Arlington, Loudoun, Prince William & Beyond.

Call 703-383-1100 for a free in-person consultation with Jon Katz about your court-pending criminal case. KatzJustice.com

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675