Balancing Excellence and Dependence: A Conversation with Dan Vander Wal (12Stone Church, Georgia)
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Balancing Excellence and Dependence: A Conversation with Dan Vander Wal (12Stone Church, Georgia)
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Dan Vander Wal, Executive Pastor at 12Stone Church in Atlanta, GA, joins host James Forrest to share his journey from a business management background into ministry, driven by a conviction that churches should operate with the same excellence and leadership rigor as top organizations — while staying rooted in prayer and dependence on God.
The conversation covers the biggest challenges facing executive pastors today, from the staffing shortage created by economic pressures, a wave of retiring Boomer pastors, and competition from creative agencies, to the growing need for specialized roles like marketing, communications, and IT within churches. Dan also highlights encouraging trends — a renewed openness to faith among Gen Z and young adults, and the momentum behind church planting — alongside real concerns about integrity at the top of large, personality-driven ministries.
Dan closes with a candid look at how he stays grounded: rejecting the myth of "balance" in favor of finding a sustainable rhythm, protecting non-negotiables like workouts, weekly time with his wife, a coach, and taking Fridays off, and his advice for pastors stepping into bigger leadership roles — relax, remember God is building the church (not you).