“The Trump administration was betting that if they broke the law fast enough,” writes Michael Lewis, “the law would never catch up to them.”

On the heels of his new book, Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State, the bestselling author of Moneyball and The Big Short returns to the show. We discuss how watching Trump’s 2017 inauguration inspired The Fifth Risk, (4:30), the rise of DOGE (9:30), and Elon Musk’s mass firing of public servants (11:00). Then, Lewis unpacks the country’s growing national debt (26:00), parallels to the 2008 financial crisis (29:30), and the attack on non-partisanship in government (35:00).

On the back half, we walk through his approach to profiling people (39:39), the criticism surrounding Going Infinite and his proximity to Sam Bankman-Fried (44:10) and the controversy behind The Blind Side (53:45). To close, we talk about how he approaches difficult subjects (1:07:20), finding hope in dark times (1:13:30), and writing through grief following the loss of his daughter, Dixie (1:17:00).

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