Kevin Shafer, president of City Fund, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith to discuss efforts to expand access to high-quality public schools across the country. Speaking on his experience with school reform in Camden, New Jersey, Shafer discusses what it takes to improve school systems and the role charter schools can play in that work. Is it better to work with districts to build a portfolio of schools, or focus on growing high-quality charters outside the system?

Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines a new study finding that districts losing students gain more funding per pupil, but much of that additional money goes toward reserves and facilities rather than higher teacher pay.

Recommended content:

• A flexible “third way” option: Partnership schools on the rise —Andy Smarick, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• Three ways charters reform and improve our schools —Chester E. Finn, Jr., Bruno V. Manno, and Brandon L. Wright, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• Denver doesn’t spell doom for portfolio-style reform —Paul T. Hill, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• The Baby Bust Goes to School —Michael J. Petrilli, Education Next
• Robbers or Victims? Charter Schools and District Finances —Mark Weber, Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• Moving Target: The Success and Failure of Missouri’s Charter School Funding Surge —Andrew M. Camp, Collin Hitt, and David Griffith, Thomas B. Fordham Institute (2026)
• The “Would You Rather?” Test —Marguerite Roza, American Enterprise Institute and Thomas B. Fordham Institute
• Enrollment, Fiscal, and Resource Changes in American Public School Districts, 1998 to 2019 —Matthew H. Lee and Benjamin Scafidi, Education Finance and Policy (2026)

Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org