To love broken people in the world, one of the most powerful things a Christian can do is be consistently, vulnerably present.

In this episode of The Disrupters, returning guest Amy Williams joins Caleb Campbell in calling out the injustice of invisible punishments, the systems that trap communities in cycles of incarceration, and the fears that keep us at a distance from the people we're called to love.

Through decades of gang intervention and mentoring justice-involved youth, Miss Amy “The Hope Dealer” has watched the justice system punish kids not only with time, but with lasting consequences: locked doors, denied job applications, voting restrictions, and constant reminders that their worst mistakes define them forever. Even more painful, she argues, is when churches echo that message, inviting incarcerated people to “come as they are” while subtly signaling that they're never truly free and never fully forgiven.

Amy Williams urges us to reject easy narratives and embrace the slow, relational work of knowing people as they are. She challenges listeners to stop doing ministry to people and start living with them. She invites us to risk proximity, admit our own brokenness, and listen before we lead as we rethink what it actually means to love our neighbors.

Tune in now to learn why, even through doubt, loss, suffering, and injustice, “Miss Amy ain't goin nowhere.”

This episode highlights the following themes:

• Why “serving your time” never ends for many in America
• The power of “consistency of presence”
• What real restorative justice and community support should look like
• Why “ministry with” is stronger than “ministry to”

Links from the episode:

• Learn more about Amy Williams
• Read Amy Williams’ book, Worth Seeing
• Learn more about The Hope Dealer
• Watch the 13th Film and check out the 13th Film Discussion Guide
• Learn more about The Disrupters
• Learn more about Caleb Campbell
• Read Caleb Campbell's book, Disarming Leviathan
• Read the transcript here

Credits:

✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPDISRUPT40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

✅ Producers: Jack Reece, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Assistant Producer: Christine Pelliccio Melo

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Sneakerhead" by Ghost Beatz

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.