You know things are really bad when federal judges–historically an extremely reticent group–are sounding the alarm about the chaos and confusion the Supreme Court is reaping these days. Never fear, Amy Coney Barrett is here to remind all of us that everything is fine, because the shadow docket is not a big deal, originalism is fun and interesting, and she's a real human mother.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

On this episode of Popular Cradle, (Rhiannon’s other podcast!), she interviews Columbia grad student Mahmoud Khalil, who was detained by ICE for more than 100 days earlier this year. You can find Popular Cradle wherever you listen to podcasts.

Feels like we should be able to collectively wrestle with the problems of a system by which 14 million people will die in the next five years because one man can decide to withhold a bunch of money that Congress said needed to be spent, but unfortunately, because of the law, and what the law says, no one can sue about it. Good luck with figuring this one out.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.