『315: Reference Checking with James Lord』のカバーアート

315: Reference Checking with James Lord

315: Reference Checking with James Lord

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James Lord says a background check tells you whether someone has been convicted of a crime, but a reference tells you about their character. He has spent nearly 20 years in HR tech, and the last decade of it focused on references. In 2025 he joined Refapp, a Swedish platform bringing structured, evidence-based reference checks to North America. Plenty of companies skip references or treat them like a box to tick. James says that’s a risk, especially when you’re hiring for roles that come with trust and access. With AI-polished resumes and teams that are only in the office part of the week, he argues that a real reference is how you learn how someone behaves when you aren’t watching. If you’ve ever skipped references to close a req faster, or called a candidate’s friend and learned nothing, this conversation is for you. In this episode, you’ll hear: How reference checking differs from background checking, and why people mix them up Why letting candidates pick any reference they want gets you nothing useful The 180% ROI James calculates for structured reference checks How to get references from people whose companies forbid giving them Why interviews miss counterproductive work behaviors like bullying How one reference turned into a brand-new candidate Why James’s upcoming DisruptHR talk is called “The Reference Check Is a Lie” Start your extended free trial of Refapp: https://www.refapp.com/hey-laurie-friend 00:00 - Intro 02:33 - References vs. background checks 03:53 - Taking the subjectivity out of references 06:38 - The ROI of checking references 08:40 - How Refapp works inside the ATS 09:54 - Who writes the reference questions 11:46 - Keeping reference answers confidential 13:09 - Getting around no-reference company policies 15:50 - The risks of skipping reference checks 19:01 - Making the need-to-have case 21:04 - Winning over reference check skeptics 22:19 - How Refapp differs from competitors 24:29 - Marathons and life outside work 26:33 - James’s upcoming DisruptHR talk
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