What if one of the greatest problems facing the church today isn't that we don't know enough about love, but that we haven't learned how to love well?

In this episode of Ministry Deep Dive, I sit down with Michael Hendricks to explore why the church needs a relational reformation—one that places love back at the center of discipleship rather than treating it as another program or ministry initiative.

We talk about the importance of joy, hesed (steadfast love), and group identity in shaping us into people who actually love like Jesus. We also wrestle with some uncomfortable questions. Have we confused church growth with spiritual maturity? Have our measurements of success distracted us from what Jesus actually called us to do? And have we become better at communicating biblical information than forming people who embody it?

Michael helps us understand why relationships are essential to spiritual formation and why simply teaching people what they ought to do isn't enough. We discuss practical ways churches can begin cultivating healthier relational environments, drawing on insights from The Other Half of Church and the work of Life Model Works.

I think this is a conversation every pastor, ministry leader, and anyone serious about discipleship needs to hear. Because if we are honest, much of what we call discipleship has focused on transferring information rather than transforming people. We have developed programs, refined our preaching, and built systems to measure almost everything. But have we actually formed people who love like Jesus?

That's not simply a theoretical question. It gets to the very heart of what the church is called to be.

What I appreciate about this conversation is that Michael doesn't just help us identify the problem. He offers a way forward. And some of what he shares may challenge the assumptions you've carried about discipleship for years.

So whether you're leading a church, discipling a small group, raising a family, or simply wondering why spiritual growth can seem so difficult, I want to encourage you to listen to this conversation. It may change the way you understand how people grow, how relationships shape us, and what it actually means to make disciples.

Jesus said the world would know we are his disciples by our love for one another. Perhaps it's time we started asking whether the people we are forming are becoming known for precisely that.

Takeaways:

• The church's primary work is to love, not merely measure success.
• We have to teach people how to love practically, not only tell them doctrinal truths.
• There is a relational reformation in which love saturates every ministry activity and decision.
• We must train mature leaders to model loving behavior so others can learn by imitation.
• We caution that relying on numerical metrics alone risks succeeding in things that do not matter.
• We advocate groups that practice compassion, ask permission before advising, and build trust through vulnerability.
• We assert that training in emotional maturity and earned relational skills must be integral to discipleship.

Sign up for our newsletter

Order Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.

Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots Society.

Donate to Apollos Watered and help make the Apollos Academy a reality!