What happens when you’re pretty sure you know what you believe… but you still have questions?
In this episode of 2414, Shane Welter and Youth Director Jonah Kaufmann sit down with Madeline Cliffe for a conversation about growing up between Saudi Arabia and the Pacific Northwest, navigating different Christian traditions, asking hard questions about baptism and the Sacraments, and discovering that faith can keep growing long after you think you’ve figured it out.
Madeline’s story takes some unexpected turns—from an international childhood and a deeply involved non-denominational church upbringing, to college, Bible school in England, and eventually Lutheranism. Along the way, she wrestles with Scripture, tradition, liturgy, theology, and what it actually means to believe that something is true.
But the conversation eventually gets even more personal.
What happens when you know what you believe, but you don't always feel like you want to believe it? What do you do when prayer feels difficult, silence feels uncomfortable, and faith starts to feel more like a checklist than a relationship with God?
It's a wide-ranging, funny, honest conversation about faith, questions, tradition, and the ongoing work of being renewed by God.
And yes… there’s Outburst.
In this episode:
00:00 – Show intro: finding hope and common ground through conversation
00:47 – Madeline joins the conversation
02:49 – Highs and lows
13:37 – Outburst begins
22:13 – Madeline’s life story
23:18 – Growing up in Saudi Arabia
34:18 – Growing up in church and Christian community
43:27 – Choosing kinesiology and a career in fitness
51:52 – Bible school in England
55:02 – How Lutheranism entered the picture
62:11 – Baptism, Scripture, and the theological rabbit hole
69:49 – Conversations that helped shape her faith
74:19 – From resisting liturgy to loving it
79:03 – Spiritual dryness, prayer, silence, and renewal
83:04 – Why testimonies matter
84:56 – Outro
2414 is a podcast from St. Luke’s Lutheran Church featuring real conversations about faith, life, ministry, and the people in our church community.
Want to share your own faith story on 2414? We’d love to hear it.
Schedule a time to share your story:
https://outlook.office.com/book/Ge29a5d453add4d478471a0c1bf208af9@stlukes-church.com/?ismsaljsauthenabled
Learn more about the St. Luke’s 1-2-3 Challenge:
https://www.stlukes-church.com/the-123-challenge
Share a step of faith so others can be encouraged:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSewdKCn3HpPkUwboSspBf8IJc_isSnlhyn8RRtWiYs0mxjOWQ/viewform?pli=1
Support the show