A conversation about the many forms of endurance: how to keep going when things get hard, start again when they don’t work, embrace fear and failure, and stay curious enough to keep evolving.

Mike Wardian is sitting in a van, days away from starting his southbound 2,650-mile run of the Pacific Crest Trail, a goal that has been sitting in the back of his mind for roughly 25 years. And somehow, he’s already thinking about what comes next: learning to row well enough to cross the Atlantic Ocean alone.

But this conversation isn’t really about collecting bigger and harder feats. Matt and Molly talk with Mike about what endurance looks like when you stretch it across an entire life: finding a reason to keep moving when things get dark, staying curious after decades in the sport, willingly becoming a beginner again, and figuring out what to do when persistence still doesn’t produce the result you wanted.

From his early discovery of marathons, ultras, the Barkley Marathons, the PCT, and the challenges still ahead, Mike offers a view of endurance that is less about refusing to stop and more about continuing to learn. Sometimes that means pushing and working through it all. Sometimes it means changing the approach. And sometimes it means building a life that leaves enough room to keep asking, “What else could I try?” And a healthy yet uncommon response of, "How hard could it be?"

In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with ultra runner and adventurer Mike Wardian to explore endurance in a much broader sense than simply refusing to stop.

Together, they cover:

• How Mike went from playing Division I lacrosse to discovering marathons, ultra running, and increasingly ambitious endurance challenges

• Why a healthy “How hard could it be?” mentality has helped him become comfortable trying things before he knows whether he will succeed

• What it means to willingly become a beginner again

• How crew support, problem solving, fueling, and an honest internal checklist can help when an endurance event starts to unravel

• Why having a meaningful “why” matters when external validation isn't enough

• How Mike has maintained curiosity and motivation across decades

• The role fear and uncertainty play in choosing challenges that are worth pursuing

• What Mike’s experiences at the Barkley Marathons taught him about failure and confidence

• Why endurance should also mean building a life that leaves room to keep learning

Whether you are an experienced ultrarunner, considering your first endurance event, or simply interested in what keeps someone curious and motivated over the long run, this conversation offers a different way to think about endurance: not just as the ability to keep going, but as the willingness to keep evolving.

Chapter List:

01:04 Introduction to Mike and how he met Bakline, Matt, and Molly

03:38 The Purpose of this Episode: Understanding Elements of Endurance

04:41 The Pacific Crest Trail: Mike's 25-Year Goal

11:17 Early Influences and Inspiration for Mike's Running and Ultra Career

16:55 Ultra Endurance Events and Mike's Healthy 'How hard can it be?' Approach

21:52 Mustering Up the Courage to Try New Things: Rowing Across The Atlantic

29:21 The Importance of Crew Support

29:21 Facing Adversity in Endurance Challenges And What To Do When Things Get Dark

33:57 The Honest Reflection of Endurance and Understanding Your "Why"

37:31 The Craft of Ultra Endurance Events, Staying Curious, and Evolving Your Approach

45:19 Embracing Fear and Uncertainty in Adventure In Order To Find Joy

50:56 Advice for the Ultra-curious Who Think: "That's Just Not Me" and How To Start

55:21 Exploring the Unknown and Embracing Challenges: The Endurance Through Failure

01:01:51 Building Confidence Through both Success and 'Failure'

01:04:30 Authenticity in Sharing the Journey

01:07:25 Connecting with the Community and Final Thoughts