Hey everyone, today I'm joined by Chris Bolton.

Chris runs Diviner, an SEO and marketing consultancy. Before that he spent about twenty years building Murmur Creative with his brother, and leaving it was hard enough that the two of them ended up in therapy over it.

Since going out on his own he has done the thing most agency owners only talk about. He canceled nearly every software subscription he was paying for and spent a year building his own replacements. That became Diviner One, the CRM and review platform his clients now run on, and Crystl, a tool for managing AI agents that about a thousand people have downloaded.

I wanted him on because build-versus-buy has changed. One person can now replace a stack that used to cost an agency thousands a month. Chris did it, and he is straight about both halves: the credibility it added to his consulting, and the year he spent building software that was never tested against anything besides his own imagination.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Where the money goes when an agency stops renting its software
• Why AI only burns you in the areas where you are not already the expert
• What it costs to leave an agency you built with your brother
• And more...

You can learn more about Chris Bolton on LinkedIn.

Also, check out Chris' Grow Your Agency community. And if you want marketing help, check out Diviner.

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And if you're ready for 1-on-1 help to create some mind-blowing offers for your agency, visit DynamicAgencyOS.com to schedule a free consultation. Running an agency is tough, but you don't need to go it alone.