Aidan Ryan and Rachelle Toarmino—two award-winning writers who are also married—join Laura Federico to explore desire, ambition, and creative partnership. They discuss the ecstatic "adrenaline rush" of making art, the relationship between absence and wanting, and how they navigate power dynamics in both their work and relationship. From Rachelle's viral poem "You up?" to Aidan's examination of his aunt and uncle's art world journey, they reveal how desire evolves from abstract wanting to deep connection, why intimacy matters more than fame, and what it means to think through writing as two people building a life together.

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Laura Federico

The Cycle Book

Rachelle Toarmino

Hell Yeah

You up?

Aidan Ryan

I Am Here You Are Not I Love You

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TIMESTAMPS

05:14 — Is it better to desire or to be desired?

06:23 — Desire as the engine of creative work

07:51 — The relationship between absence and desire

08:53 — Desire vs. ambition in the life of an artist

10:00 — Aidan's early encounters with publishing and fame

12:32 — The discomfort of being desired and misinterpreted

13:24 — Rachelle on rejecting careerist poetry tracks

14:56 — "I want to be read because I want to be felt and understood"

16:59 — What ecstasy feels like when writing a poem

18:21 — How Aidan and Rachelle met

21:41 — "Our understanding of our desires improves as we age"

22:06 — What changes as the relationship evolves

23:46 — The intimacy of direct address in Rachelle's poetry

25:15 — Finding the out-loud voice of new poems

27:07 — The story behind "You up?" the viral Tumblr poem

29:38 — Gender roles in creative relationships

33:41 — Power dynamics beyond patriarchal stereotypes

34:52 — Where desire and power intersect

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Our music, Hit Her Up, is written by Nakisso Peralta and performed by Chillers.