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In this episode of the Nature Recovery Podcast, Stephen Thomas speaks with Professor Seirian Sumner, one of the world’s leading experts on social insects and a passionate advocate for rethinking our relationship with wasps. Seirian reveals how a reluctant PhD choice turned into a 25-year research career uncovering the remarkable societies, behaviours and ecological roles of these misunderstood insects.

Together, they explore how social evolution unfolds inside a wasp colony, why wasps are essential apex predators, and how their potential in pollination and pest control has been overlooked. Seirian explains the cultural and scientific biases that favour bees over wasps, describes global efforts to understand their ecological value, and offers simple ways to coexist with the wasps at your picnic. The conversation ranges from Malaysian rainforests to Brazilian drone-released parasitoids, and from the evolution of altruism to the future of nature recovery.

This episode will change the way you see wasps — perhaps even help you appreciate them.

About Seirian Sumner

Professor Seirian Sumner is a behavioural ecologist at University College London whose research combines field biology, behavioural experiments and genomics to understand how animal societies evolve. She is co-founder of the Big Wasp Survey and Soapbox Science, championing public engagement and women in STEM. Her award-winning book, Endless Forms, invites readers to rethink wasps entirely — from feared picnic pests to extraordinary, essential, and ecologically vital creatures.

Endless Forms by Seirian Sumner:
https://www.williamcollinsbooks.co.uk/products/endless-forms-the-secret-world-of-wasps-seirian-sumner-9780008394479/

The Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is interested in promoting a wide variety of views and opinions on nature recovery from researchers and practitioners.

The views, opinions and positions expressed within this podcast are those of the speakers alone, they do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery, or its researchers.

The work of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is made possible thanks to the support of the Leverhulme Trust.