Malinda Sanna is the Founder and CEO of LookLook, a consumer insights platform that helps brands uncover customer insights through curated communities and intimate, one-on-one digital research. She leads the company's methodology, recruitment, and client work, translating human behavior, culture, and customer journeys into actionable insights for global brands across luxury, beauty, CPG, tech, and e-commerce. Malinda moves beyond surveys and focus groups to reveal the motivations that drive buying decisions.

Customers rarely make decisions in the neat, logical way brands expect. They may say an ad, review, or recommendation influenced them, but the real motivation often starts earlier and runs deeper. So how can brands uncover what people actually think, feel, and do before they buy?

The answer is to get closer to the customer's real life, and Malinda Sanna, a consumer insights expert, explains how deeper research can reveal what surveys and focus groups often miss. Instead of relying on surface-level answers, brands need to understand the full path to purchase, the emotional context behind decisions, and the moments when customers feel seen or unheard. One-on-one conversations, thoughtful recruitment, and in-the-moment observation can uncover more useful insights than traditional research methods. For e-commerce brands, better creative, stronger messaging, and smarter growth all start with more human understanding.

In this episode of the Up Arrow Podcast, William Harris talks with Malinda Sanna, Founder and CEO of LookLook, about why brands need to move beyond shallow customer research. Malinda explains how to uncover buying motivations, why focus groups fall short, and what e-commerce brands should learn from the full customer journey. She also touches on luxury psychology, community, and analog connections.

Ross Beyeler is the VP of Business Intelligence at Zaelab, a B2B digital consultancy that helps manufacturers and enterprise organizations modernize the customer experience. In his role, Ross leads data, analytics, and business intelligence strategy, helping organizations translate complex operational and financial data into actionable insights that improve profitability and decision-making. With experience in e-commerce, agency operations, and data-driven growth, he also founded and led multiple companies.

Most companies assume growth is just a matter of getting more customers, but the real story is often buried inside their numbers. Revenue can look strong while profitability quietly erodes through hidden costs, misaligned incentives, and decisions that don't show up on a surface-level dashboard. If your business is growing but margins aren't improving, what are you missing?

According to profitability expert Ross Beyeler, the key is learning to read a business through its contribution margin rather than top-line revenue alone. He emphasizes separating new customer acquisition from retention-driven growth, since each carries very different cost structures and long-term impact. Ross also advises leaders to scrutinize return rates, software spend, and fixed-versus-variable cost decisions, because these often determine whether scaling improves profit. Leaders should remain close to the organization through skip-level conversations and direct visibility into teams, so they don't lose touch with operations. The companies that win are the ones that understand what drives profit, not just what drives activity.

In this episode of the Up Arrow Podcast, William Harris chats with Ross Beyeler, VP of Business Intelligence at Zaelab, about how to uncover hidden profit drivers in growing businesses. Ross discusses P&L analysis beyond revenue, customer acquisition versus retention economics, and why over-optimization can distort decision-making. He also breaks down post-acquisition integration challenges and how founders can stay connected to the operations.

Michael Kleinmann is the Founder and CEO of Michael Kleinmann Consulting, a bespoke consultancy helping DTC e-commerce and subscription brands grow. He is also the Founder and CEO of Underwear Expert, a men's underwear platform that evolved from a digital media brand into a leading curated subscription service. As a seasoned e-commerce entrepreneur, Michael spent a decade as the President of Freshpair, where he helped build one of the largest online retailers in the underwear category. With over two decades of experience scaling e-commerce and subscription brands, he focuses on brand building, subscriptions, operations, marketing, technology, and customer experience.

When growth stalls, most brands immediately reach for a new agency, a better campaign, or a larger ad budget. Before pouring more money into an acquisition, leaders have to ask themselves, is the business actually built to scale?

The answer is to diagnose the foundation before trying to scale what sits on top of it. E-commerce operations and subscription expert Michael Kleinmann advises brands to validate their data, focus on gross profit over ROAS alone, and audit their systems for issues with sizing, product structure, COGS, and inventory forecasting. He suggests fixing low-hanging operational problems first, not training customers to expect deep discounts, using 3PLs when fulfillment distracts from growth, and ensuring subscription models have the right infrastructure before launching. Sustainable growth comes from strengthening the systems that support marketing, not simply spending more on acquisition.

In this episode of the Up Arrow Podcast, William Harris sits down with Michael Kleinmann, Founder and CEO of Michael Kleinmann Consulting and Underwear Expert, to discuss fixing the hidden cracks that stop DTC brands from scaling. Michael shares lessons from early e-commerce, subscription complexity, AI opportunities, inventory forecasting, 3PLs, discounting mistakes, and operational audits.