In this episode, we dive deep into one of the most bizarre and tragic chapters in the David narrative - the death of Absalom. Set against the backdrop of a father-son civil war, 2 Samuel 18 tells the surreal story of Absalom getting caught in a tree while riding a mule, and Joab's brutal decision to kill him despite David's explicit command to "deal gently" with his son. We explore the literary complexity of this text, including surprising parallels to Jesus' death, the politics of empire, and the profound cost of unchecked power dynamics within families and kingdoms.

Topics Covered

* The absurd circumstances of Absalom's death - How Absalom gets stuck in an oak tree while riding a mule and the darkly comic elements that make this biblical narrative so memorable

* Literary parallels between Absalom and Jesus - The striking similarities including hanging from a tree, betrayal, burial under stones, and the presence of multiple messengers racing to deliver news

* Joab's defiance and the exploitation of the Cushite messenger - How Joab deliberately ignores David's command and sends a foreign messenger (the Cushite) to deliver the devastating news, highlighting issues of belonging and exploitation of marginalized people

* David's dual role as king and father - The tension between David's political needs as a ruler and his emotional devastation as a father, including the shift from calling Absalom "the young man" to "my son"

* The broader costs of empire and injustice - How this tragic family drama reflects larger themes about the price of power, the perpetuation of cycles of violence, and the missed opportunity to address injustice against Tamar that started the whole conflict

Timestamps:

01:09 Recap of David and Absalom's Conflict

02:07 The Battle and Absalom's Fate

03:17 Joab's Defiance and Absalom's Death

04:40 The Aftermath and David's Mourning

05:26 Literary Parallels with the Crucifixion

21:12 Joab's Role and the Cushite Messenger

27:17 David's Dual Roles and Moral Dilemmas

32:18 Takeaways

Join Kate and Liz Charlotte Grant as they explore how to approach Scripture when traditional, literal interpretations no longer serve believers who are deconstructing or reframing their faith. Grant shares her journey of finding new ways to engage with biblical texts through literary analysis, diverse commentators, and interdisciplinary connections.

Liz Charlotte Grant is an award-winning essayist, author of the Empathy List substack, and her debut book, a personal, interdisciplinary commentary on the book of Genesis, Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible is available now.

Topics Covered:

* How traditional methods of reading the Bible, especially within White American Evangelicalism, have been limiting and sometimes harmful, and why new approaches are needed for those reframing their faith

* The importance of diverse voices in biblical interpretation, particularly from women, people of color, and other historically excluded groups who offer fresh perspectives beyond the dominant white male theological tradition

* Grant's creative approach to Genesis through interdisciplinary connections—linking biblical stories to art, science, and literature to illuminate scripture in new ways

* The distinction between factual accuracy and deeper truth in scripture, and why approaching the Bible through a literary lens can reveal profound insights without requiring historical literalism

* Practical advice for those wanting to re-engage with the Bible after deconstruction, including starting with commentaries, trusting your own reading, and creating a diverse "table" of interpretive voices

Grant's book uses creative writing and non-traditional sources to approach Genesis with fresh eyes, demonstrating how scripture can remain meaningful even after one's relationship with the Bible has fundamentally changed.

Timestamps:

01:12 Reframing Faith and Reading the Bible

01:49 Challenges of Traditional Biblical Interpretation

04:43 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives

10:18 Creative and Literary Approaches to the Bible

11:19 Truth vs. Historicity in Biblical Texts

17:12 Why Return to the Bible?

18:06 The Making of the Bible: A Complex Process

19:57 The Sinai Sisters: Manuscript Hunters

23:19 Catherine Bushnell: A Pioneer for Women in the Bible

26:41 Judith Butler: An Artist's Voice

32:24 Reengaging with the Bible: Tools and Tips

In this enlightening episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd sits down with Jennifer Layte to explore the concept of stages of faith. Despite many Christians being taught that faith is static or linear, Jennifer shares insights from both James Fowler's modern framework and Teresa of Avila's 16th-century "Interior Castle" to help listeners understand that spiritual growth naturally involves distinct phases and transitions. This conversation offers comfort and clarity for those navigating their own changing relationship with Jesus, especially during periods of deconstruction or spiritual uncertainty.

About Jennifer:

Jennifer A. G. Layte is a pastor, author of two published novels, and founder of The Pilgrimage—a Jesus-centered online spiritual formation community, created especially to tend to the stories of those who have been hurt by the church or are otherwise struggling in their faith.

Jennifer’s training and certification as an Advanced Practice Board Certified Chaplain, a spiritual director, and an ordained pastor have provided her with unique opportunities to work with diverse (on just about every metric) groups of people. The human stories she carries and the ways she has found to shepherd people through the difficult parts of those stories directly influence her writing. Meanwhile, her formal background in literature and theology gives her imaginative ways of retelling the stories of the Bible and of others, encouraging people to live within their own stories better.

Jennifer and her husband Paul live in New England with their two adorable rescue dogs, an impressive garden, and, to their fascination but not always delight, an astonishing array of wildlife.

Website and Social Media Links

Jennifer’s Book Follower

https://jenniferaglayte.com

https://the-pilgrimage.org

https://linktr.ee/jenniferaglayte

Topics Covered:

* Castles, Mansions, and Soul Work: Discover the fascinating historical frameworks for understanding faith transitions, from a 16th century nun's "Interior Castle" to modern psychological approaches

* "I'm Not Sure God Is Anywhere": Why those terrifying spiritual dry spells might actually be doorways to deeper faith, and how knowing about stages can help you not panic when they arrive

* When Church Activism Isn't Enough: Jennifer reveals the significant transition that many Western Christians are experiencing today, and why moving beyond the "busy doing" phase often feels so disruptive

* Same Beliefs, Different Grip: How you might end up believing many of the same things but holding them completely differently—and why Jennifer went from firmly opposing women pastors to becoming one herself

* Loving Across the Divide: Practical wisdom for those moments when you want to scream "Oh my God, what are these people thinking?"—and how to create meaningful connections with those in different faith stages

Timestamps:

00:47 Stages of Faith: An Overview

14:11 Challenges in Faith Transitions

20:58 The Importance of Growth in Faith

22:03 Evolving Beliefs and Perspectives

28:37 Balancing Tradition and Change

29:59 Engaging with Jesus in Faith

32:49 Loving Others in Different Stages

35:07 Grace in Imperfection

In this episode of Untidy Faith, we dive into a thoughtful conversation with MaryB. Safrit about the valuable perspectives and insights that LGBTQ+ Christians bring to faith communities. MaryB. shares her personal journey and wisdom on how straight Christians can learn from queer believers to create more inclusive and authentic expressions of Christian community. This conversation explores misconceptions, reimagines church structures, and highlights the rich theological contributions that emerge from diverse experiences of faith.

Topics Covered:

* Misunderstandings and Misconceptions: Mary B discusses common misconceptions straight Christians have about LGBTQ+ believers, including assumptions about how queer Christians approach scripture and theology

* Intimacy, Friendship, and Boundaries: How queer Christians have developed nuanced understandings of intimacy, attraction, and friendship that challenge harmful purity culture narratives and can benefit all Christians

* Found Family and Chosen Community: The rich tradition of "found family" in queer communities offers powerful models for Christian community that transcend the nuclear family focus of many churches

* Creating Truly Inclusive Churches: Practical insights for making church spaces welcoming through clarity, co-creation, and valuing all members beyond their perceived "usefulness" to church programs

* Challenging Church Hierarchies: How moving away from corporate/business models of church toward more organic communities creates space for diverse gifts and voices

Timestamps:

02:27 Misconceptions About LGBTQIA+ Believers

05:12 Personal Journey and Challenges

09:41 Lessons from the LGBTQIA+ Community

17:36 Evolving Concepts of Family and Belonging

28:57 Inclusivity in Churches

About MaryB. Safrit:

MaryB. Safrit is a New York City-based writer, merch maker, relationship coach, and host of the Found Family podcast. She is passionate about creating spaces and resources for folks who feel like the church doesn't know what to do with them. MaryB. is your friendly neighborhood bisexual and recovering people-pleaser who is currently in her goblin era. Follow her on Instagram and TikTok @maryb.safrit, and get on her Substack list at marybsafrit.substack.com

Website and Social Media Links

* https://www.marybsafrit.com/

* https://www.instagram.com/maryb.safrit/

* https://www.tiktok.com/@maryb.safrit

* https://www.marybsafrit.com/shop

Join us as we dive into 2 Samuel 17, examining the complex power dynamics between Absalom and David, the manipulative counsel given by advisors, and the troubling absence of God's voice amid human schemes for revenge and power.

Topics Covered:

* The contrast between Ahithophel and Hushai's advice to Absalom, and how manipulation through vanity and insecurity shaped Absalom's fateful decision

* The recurring theme of women being unnamed and used as tools in men's power struggles, drawing parallels to other biblical stories of women subverting authority

* How cycles of violence perpetuate when justice becomes corrupted by vengeance and personal agendas

* The significant silence of God throughout this chapter, and what that silence might tell us about divine perspective on human power struggles

* The way Absalom's initially pure motives for justice (regarding his sister Tamar) became corrupted through his pursuit of power and vengeance

Timestamps:

01:06 Recap of 2 Samuel 17

01:51 Discussion on Absalom's Coup

05:58 Analyzing the Role of Women in 2 Samuel

08:41 Theological Reflections and Modern Parallels

25:55 Hospitality and Symbolic Significance in the Wilderness

41:11 Takeaways and Final Thoughts

In this episode, Tiffany Bluhm returns to the Untidy Faith Podcast to help us reframe self-care as an essential component of both personal wholeness and communal flourishing. Moving beyond the commercialized wellness industry, Tiffany offers a powerful perspective on how caring for ourselves in a world that doesn't is both biblical and necessary for creating meaningful social change. Drawing from biblical women and historical examples, she challenges the glorification of burnout and self-sacrifice prevalent in American church culture.

In this episode we discuss:

* How the American church has often discouraged self-care by celebrating and congratulating women who spend themselves until there's nothing left

* The false dichotomy between self-care and self-sacrifice, and why they're actually "a tension to be managed, not solved"

* How biblical women like Miriam demonstrate that self-care isn't a luxury only for the privileged but a necessary component of liberation

* The powerful example of interned Japanese-American women during WWII who practiced communal self-care as resistance

* Practical steps for beginning a self-care journey, including identifying what's missing in your life and what you need to let go of

About Tiffany Bluhm

Tiffany Bluhm is a speaker and writer with more than fifteen years of experience in ministry and nonprofit leadership. She is the author of The Women We’ve Been Waiting For, Prey Tell, She Dreams, and Never Alone. Her work is at the intersection of faith and justice, and her writing has been featured in Publishers Weekly, Sojourners, the YouVersion Bible app, and more. She lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband and two sons.

Timestamps:

00:51 Challenges of Self Care in the American Church

01:33 Redefining Self Care

03:49 Historical Examples of Self Care

07:08 Communal Flourishing Through Self Care

12:52 Practical Steps for Self Care

27:48 Supporting Others in Their Self Care Journey

29:36 Where to Find Tiffany Online

In this episode, Kate explores the Wesleyan Quadrilateral as a valuable framework for reading and interpreting scripture. This approach offers a more balanced and holistic way to engage with the Bible, especially for those who are deconstructing or reconstructing their faith. Kate shares how this framework has transformed her own relationship with scripture, providing a more nuanced understanding that honors both the text and our lived experiences.

Topics Covered:

* The four components of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral: Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience

* How Scripture can be a primary authority without being the sole authority

* Why acknowledging our traditions (whether formal or informal) enhances our biblical understanding

* The importance of bringing reason, critical thinking, and modern knowledge to our reading

* How personal and communal experiences enrich our interpretation of texts

Timestamps:

00:29 Exploring the Wesleyan Quadrilateral

03:07 Scripture: The Primary Source

05:58 Tradition: Learning from the Past

12:01 Reason: Embracing Critical Thinking

17:05 Experience: Personal and Communal Insights

21:27 Applying the Wesleyan Quadrilateral

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd is joined by Trey Ferguson and Robert Monson from the Three Black Men crew for a thoughtful conversation about white supremacy in deconstruction spaces. They explore how patterns of white supremacy continue to manifest even after people leave conservative religious environments, and discuss practical ways to build more liberative communities. Let’s examine how these patterns affect our interactions and envision a world beyond the current systems.

Topics Covered:

* How white supremacy manifests in deconstruction spaces, often appearing as simply "an exchange of certainties"

* The tendency to platform and center white voices even in progressive spaces

* Practical steps toward dismantling white supremacy, including diversifying whose voices we listen to

* The importance of being in community with people who experience the world differently

* Moving beyond resistance to envisioning and creating a world beyond white supremacy

About Our Guests:

Trey Ferguson is a Miami-Dade County based minister, writer, and podcaster, and the creator of the New Living Translation, the author of Theologizin’ Bigger, and pastor of Intention Church.

Robert Monson is a PhD student, co-director of enfleshed, and host of Black Coffee and Theology. He writes and studies theology- usually at the intersection of disability, soft masculinity, as well as black and womanist theology, and composes and plays music.