This one’s a Part Two. If you haven’t listened to the last episode – “Let Them Eat Cake” – go do that first.

We pick up where we left off on the unlimited (sa)usage debate that started last episode, this time getting into the practical reality of how we bid jobs, when we mention usage/licensing, and when we don’t. And why the idealistic advice to "hold the line on licensing" doesn't work the way it used to.

In the second half Bill introduces a possible future: retainers. Shooting multiple times a year for a client for less than you might have charged before, but making more than you would for a one-off shoot. Win sorta win? Bill also uses the C-word and Jay doesn’t like it.

"You give the same bid three times and you don't get it, and you say to yourself: I don't think this costs that anymore."

Links:

@asksternrep — Andrea Stern’s (generally) great advice resource on Instagram

ASMP — American Society of Media Photographers

Mike Kelly, architecture photographer

Wonderful Machine — wonderfulmachine.com (commonly referenced resource for licensing and bidding)

Find us:

Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayfram

Follow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalich

Read Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.com

Jay's photography: jayfram.com

Bill's photography: sawalich.com

Write to us: jay@jayfram.com / bill@sawalich.com

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