The final episode in our four part "The Secrets of Hillsong" special.

Justin and Kevin venture on a hypothetical journey, exploring what "Pastor Kevin" would have done had he been in the shoes of Brian Houston for the events described in Episode 3 of the FX documentary, "The Secrets of Hillsong."

Justin and Kevin discuss the second episode of the FX documentary, "The Secrets of Hillsong." In this episode, our hosts offer their perspective on the very concept of a "Hillsong College," on the actions of church founder Brian Houston following Carl Lentz' fall from grace, and on the shameful treatment of Laura Lentz in the aftermath of Carl's affair.

This episode kicks off our 4-part mini-series where we discuss the FX Documentary "The Secrets of Hillsong." In this episode, Justin and Kevin discuss Episode 1 of the documentary in detail, ranging from their own personal experiences with Hillsong music to the ousting of the Hillsong Church's former senior pastor, Carl Lentz, to the common folly of corporatized churches in America.

Justin and Kevin discuss their personal experiences with the Altar Call conversion method. They discuss the typical ingredients of an altar call, effective use cases for it, and whether or not it has a proper place in the modern church.

Kevin asks Justin a question or two about where Justin sources his ethics from now that it isn't the Bible. Justin shares his thoughts on the virtues of empathy and authenticity.

Kevin gets very honest and tells Justin he's going to hell. Justin tries his best to play Jesus' advocate and give one or two reasons why hell makes logical sense when viewed through the lens of Christian theology.

Justin and Kevin discuss some of William Blake's works from The Songs of Innocence and The Songs of Experience. In the process, they stumble upon what would later become the title of their podcast.