Thought Partners S3 E3: Risk, Riskier, Riskiest

How do you feel about risk, and when is a risk worth taking? Ed and Paul take on a two-part question from Beth Ardner in the Thought Partners Discord. They start out wary of the word, find the risk hiding in staying put, and land somewhere more useful: you can't avoid risk, so name it, sort it, and ask what happens if it works.

**Bring us the next question.** Join the Thought Partners Discord, add a question about change, or tell us about a risk that turned out to be worth it.
👉 https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

We're on X now too: @ThoughtPtnrsPod (https://x.com/ThoughtPtnrsPod)

Timestamps
00:05 Welcome, and Beth's question from the Discord
02:48 Gut reaction: risk-averse
04:40 "A situation involving exposure to danger"
07:56 The risk you choose and the risk chosen for you
08:53 The risk Ed didn't choose
10:31 The risk of staying put
15:32 Comfortable, settled, stagnant
20:54 Name the risk before you decide
25:13 We take risks every day
28:29 Risk is change's partner
29:24 Safety, and when accidents happen
32:06 The board game Risk
36:15 What board games teach us
39:51 What if it works?
43:33 Letting go of the trapeze
44:51 When is a risk worth taking?
46:14 The risk of never trying
47:26 What to try this week
51:07 Risk, riskier, riskiest
52:17 Wrap

Try this week
- Notice your first reaction to a risk, then question it. Is it true, false, or do you not know yet?
- Ask "What if this does work?" as seriously as "What if it doesn't?"
- Name your risks and sort them: risky, riskier, riskiest.
- Look for the steps between either and or. It's rarely a straight choice between two things.

From the episode
- Who invented Risk? We asked you to look it up in the Discord, so here's the answer: French filmmaker Albert Lamorisse created it in 1957 as *La Conquête du Monde*, and Parker Brothers brought it to the US. Monopoly's story belongs to Lizzie Magie and *The Landlord's Game*.- Paul's quote: "Do not act as if you were going to live ten thousand years. Death hangs over you. While you live, while it is in your power, be good." Marcus Aurelius, *Meditations* 4.17.
- The trapeze callback is from Episode 2, "The Messy Middle," with Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters.

Thanks
To Beth Ardner for the question, and to everyone who upvoted it.

Hosts
Ed Buchanan & Paul Tonden

Music: "Momentum," original Thought Partners theme.

Thought Partners S3 E2 — The Messy Middle

For the show's first four-person episode, Ed and Paul bring in a pair of thought partners: Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters, the change-management practitioners and neurodivergence coaches behind Spark and Aim. Together they rumble with the messy middle of change, the stretch after you've committed and before you've arrived, where resistance, loss and most of the real growth live, and what leaders (and one-person businesses) can do there this week.

Join the conversation: the Thought Partners Discord is where we pick the questions for the rest of Season 3.

👉 https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

Timestamps
00:05 — Welcome to our first four-person episode
01:41 — Meet Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters
03:59 — Is "change management" a lie?
05:50 — Adapt, sustain, evolve: change vs. transition
10:25 — Bridges' transition model and the trapeze
12:57 — Hanging on to the bar: Paul's clients and new beginnings
15:34 — Mindset takes time (people aren't widgets)
17:48 — Why "change" lands as loss
20:15 — Kyle and Deb as thought partners: how Spark and Aim began
24:32 — What "neurodivergent" means (and "neurospicy")
29:23 — Thinking preferences and the factory model of work
34:33 — The messy middle
39:28 — What the messy middle feels like, and resistance as a signal
42:37 — A sandbox, not a mess: the growth zone
45:09 — A neurodivergent lens on change
46:29 — This week's small try: treat a mistake as a learning opportunity
51:33 — Share interview questions ahead, and "clear is kind"
53:48 — Protect your people from extra disruption
54:29 — Managing your own change as a one-person business (and naming "Bob")
57:30 — The non-negotiable: leadership support
59:16 — Informed confidence, competence and connection
1:02:58 — Where to find Kyle and Deb

This week's small tries

- Treat a mistake as a learning opportunity: ask "What did you find? How can we apply it?" instead of shaming.

- If HR allows it, share interview questions with candidates ahead of time.

- Ask of every expectation you set: is this clear? If it is, what does the behavior look like?

- In the messy middle, protect your team from piling on additional disruptions.

- Running your own show? Name your inner critic, then throw it out the door.

Our guests

Kyle Nelson is an organizational psychology practitioner, Prosci-certified change manager (APTD), and neurodivergence coach.

Deb Peters is a certified change management practitioner and professional certified coach who works with neurotypical and neurodivergent people at pivot points.

Together they run Spark and Aim Neurodivergent Coaching: https://sparkandaim.com (also on LinkedIn: Spark and Aim Neurodivergent Coaching).

Coming up
- Episode 3 (October 20): shaped by your questions in the Discord.

Hosts
Ed Buchanan & Paul Tonden

Music: "Momentum," original Thought Partners theme.

Fifteen episodes in, Ed and Paul open Season 3 by naming it: a Season of Change. They rumble with the question "When did you realize things weren't going back to normal?", why "normal" feels so comfortable, and how to have a plan for when the plan doesn't go to plan. Then Ed puts ten brand-new questions on the table, the questions that will drive the rest of the season.

**Help shape Episodes 3–7:** join the Thought Partners Discord and add or upvote a question about change by **October 13**.

👉 https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

## Timestamps

00:05 — Welcome to Season 3 (episode 15!)
01:28 — "It's our quinceañera": what 15 episodes has meant
03:59 — 25 engaged listeners or 500 casual ones
05:52 — Naming it the Season of Change
08:17 — Ten years ago today: could you have predicted this?
10:41 — When did you realize things weren't going back to normal?
14:10 — Control, forecasting, and what you're carrying
17:38 — Plans, curveballs, and the Empowered Learner
20:07 — Have a plan for when the plan doesn't go to plan
22:47 — Improv, beats, and why normal feels comfortable
26:14 — Comfortable with being uncomfortable (and Ed's first day teaching)
29:44 — Process people, routine, and whether change ever ends
34:45 — Krispy Kreme, AI, and the human in the loop
38:43 — From "back to normal" to a desired future state
39:03 — Lightning round: ten questions for a Season of Change
41:43 — More than three people: the thought-partner crash
44:11 — What, who, and how you come up with a good question
46:14 — Where the questions came from
49:09 — Anything new under the sun? (and Stoic D-minus days)
51:22 — Wrap

## The ten questions (lightning round, 39:03)

1. What have you stopped waiting for?

2. What does it cost to keep treating change as an event, like the weather?

3. Who did you have to become to keep up, and do you like that person?

4. When everyone's shifting, who do you actually turn to?

5. What change did you fight the hardest that turned out to be the right call?

6. What did the last few years take from you, and what did they quietly hand you?

7. What used to be a crisis for you that's now just a Tuesday?

8. What's the one thing you refuse to change, no matter what?

9. What are you pretending to be fine with?

10. What advice about handling change do you think is just wrong?

Which one would you want us to rumble with? Tell us in the Discord: https://discord.gg/5CU3xW4AD

## Coming up

- Episode 2 (October 13): our first episode with more than three people — a thought-partner crash with Kyle Nelson and Deb Peters.

- Episodes 3–7: shaped by your questions.

## Hosts

Ed Buchanan & Paul Tonden

Music: "Momentum," original Thought Partners theme.