In this episode, I sit down with two people whose courage helped change history—Paul Katami and Jeff Zarrillo. You may know their names from the landmark marriage equality case Hollingsworth v. Perry, but getting to hear their story directly is something else entirely.

Paul and Jeff take me back to the moment Proposition 8 passed in California and what it felt like to suddenly have their rights stripped away. What followed was an emotional, unexpected journey—from ordinary life into the national spotlight as two of the plaintiffs challenging Prop 8. They open up about the fear, frustration, and resolve that came with becoming what they often call “accidental activists.”

We talk about the intense media scrutiny, the personal toll of the lawsuit, and the very real threats they faced along the way. They also share behind‑the‑scenes moments of working with legal heavyweights Ted Olson and David Boies, and what it was like to stand in a courtroom knowing the outcome could shape the future for generations to come.

From the early days of organizing and rallies, to the district court trial, and finally the historic Supreme Court decision, this conversation is deeply personal, emotional, and incredibly inspiring. Paul and Jeff reflect not just on winning the case, but on what marriage equality truly means—then and now.

This episode is a powerful reminder that history isn’t just made by institutions or courts—it’s made by people brave enough to stand up and say, “This isn’t right.”

Episode Timeline

• 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
• 01:07 Honoring the Past: Out 100 Event
• 03:20 The California Prop 8 Case
• 06:46 The Emotional Toll of Proposition 8
• 13:03 Becoming Accidental Activists
• 16:22 Joining the Fight for Marriage Equality
• 20:17 California Supreme Court Ruling on Prop 8
• 20:39 The Legal Challenge Begins
• 21:07 A Reagan‑Appointed Judge
• 21:38 The 2010 Rally and Media Scrutiny
• 22:35 The Impact of the Lawsuit
• 24:44 Facing Opposition and Threats
• 27:48 Ted Olson and David Boies Join the Case
• 30:32 The District Court Trial
• 35:03 The Supreme Court Decision and Personal Reflections
• 36:26 The Historic Day and Its Aftermath

You can write to me at: Questions@DukesDownload.co

And follow me on: @JamesDukeMason