This summer, the UpWords Podcast is featuring leaders making a tangible difference in the Madison community. Host Rebecca Cooks sits down with Rev. Dr. Alexander Gee — pastor, author, and founder and CEO of the Center for Black Excellence and Culture — for a wide-ranging, honest conversation recorded not long after the Center's grand opening drew more than 1,500 people through its doors.

They talk about what the Center actually is — part museum, part business incubator, part performing arts venue, part neuroscience research lab — and how it grew out of listening sessions with more than 700 Black Madisonians. From there, the conversation turns to belonging: why Rev. Dr. Gee insists belonging is not the same as proximity, and why he believes American integration, as it actually unfolded, cost Black communities more than it gave — including the story of the 36,000 Black teachers who lost their jobs when schools integrated. They also discuss the Harlem Renaissance and W.E.B. Du Bois, what has kept Rev. Dr. Gee rooted in Madison across four decades, his advice for minorities discerning whether to stay in the city and for white residents who want to be genuine allies, and why he believes the Black church — not the American government — has shaped the moral conscience of the nation. The conversation closes with reflections on the art and music that heal.

GUEST BIO
Rev. Dr. Alexander Gee is the Founder and CEO of the Center for Black Excellence and Culture in Madison, Wisconsin, and the founding lead pastor of Fountain of Life Covenant Church. He also founded the Nehemiah Center for Urban Leadership Development and its "Justified Anger" initiative, and he serves as an adjunct professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison. Over more than 40 years of ministry and community leadership, he has raised more than $70 million for Madison-area organizations addressing racial disparities, including the $33 million Center for Black Excellence and Culture, which opened debt-free with a grand-opening celebration on May 6, 2026, drawing over 1,500 visitors.

LINKS

• https://www.theblackcenter.org/
• https://africanamericanstudies.wisc.edu/
• https://africanamericanstudies.wisc.edu/2024/05/13/reverend-dr-alex-gee-receives-honorary-doctorate/
• https://nehemiah.org/
• https://nehemiah.org/jacourses/

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Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

How do you read the Bible? Most of us assume we already know: we read to learn what happened, to understand what a passage means, or to find a principle to apply. In this episode, host Dan Hummel is joined by guest Jeff Dryden, professor of biblical studies and department chair at Covenant College, to ask whether Scripture is inviting us to something deeper.

Dryden is the author of A Hermeneutic of Wisdom: Recovering the Formative Agency of Scripture (Baker Academic), which argues that the whole Bible — not just its "wisdom" books — is written to shape our deepest loves and convictions, not merely to hand us information or timeless principles. Dan and Jeff talk through why biblical scholars are trained to tell us what a text meant rather than what it means, how that division of labor between biblical studies and theology leaves a formation-shaped gap, and what philosophers like Hans-Georg Gadamer and Michael Polanyi have to offer pastors and everyday readers trying to close it.

Along the way: why Paul is a far less systematic thinker than popular imagination suggests, what Mark's Gospel is doing to our idols of Jesus, and why "the Bible wasn't written to us, but it was written for us" is true — and doesn't go far enough.

In this episode:

• Why biblical scholars are trained to ask what a text meant, not what it means — and what gets lost in that division of labor
• Why the Bible is always "applied theology" — never abstract, formal theology — and what that means for how a sermon should be built
• Reading Mark's Gospel as an exercise in dismantling our idols of who Jesus is
• Hans-Georg Gadamer's idea of Wirkungsgeschichte ("history of effects") and why we can never step outside the tradition we read from
• Augustine's test for biblical understanding: if you haven't grown in love of God and neighbor, you haven't understood a word
• Why the historical-critical and grammatical-historical methods — liberal and conservative alike — share the same modern DNA
• What's next for Dryden: a forthcoming book on evangelical moralism and legalism as counterfeit versions of the gospel

About the guest:
Jeff Dryden (PhD, Cambridge University) is professor of biblical studies and chair of the department at Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where he has taught for nearly two decades. He is the author of Theology and Ethics in 1 Peter and A Hermeneutic of Wisdom: Recovering the Formative Agency of Scripture (Baker Academic).

Mentioned in this episode:

• Jeff Dryden, A Hermeneutic of Wisdom: Recovering the Formative Agency of Scripture
• BibleProject and Tim Mackie
• John Walton, Old Testament scholar, Wheaton College Graduate School
• Scot McKnight and Hans Boersma, Five Things Biblical Scholars Wish Theologians Knew / Five Things Theologians Wish Biblical Scholars Knew
• Hans-Georg Gadamer, philosopher (Wirkungsgeschichte, hermeneutics)
• Anthony Thiselton, The Two Horizons / New Horizons in Hermeneutics
• Sandra Schneiders and Michael Polanyi ("personal knowledge")
• Augustine, On Christian Doctrine (De Doctrina Christiana)
• Johann Philipp Gabler and Wilhelm Dilthey, on the historical roots of modern biblical studies

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

Phil Haslanger has spent decades straddling two worlds that don't always trust each other: journalism and the church. In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host John Terrill sits down with the longtime Capital Times editor turned ordained pastor for an in-person conversation recorded at Upper House in Madison, Wisconsin, as part of a summer series spotlighting local leaders whose faith shapes their public work.

Over a 35-year career at The Capital Times, Phil worked as a reporter, city editor, editorial page editor, and managing editor before entering ordained ministry with the United Church of Christ in 2007. He talks about growing up in an almost entirely white Marinette, Wisconsin, how his image of God has shifted from "someone at a control panel" to what he calls "the force of love in the universe," and what a career built on journalistic skepticism taught him about pastoral care.

The conversation also covers Phil’s work building an interfaith network of Fitchburg-area churches, his award-winning advocacy against domestic violence, the line between prophetic public witness and partisan politics, and where he sees both progress and failure in how the American press covers religion — including a candid take on AI's growing and risky role in newsrooms.

Phil Haslanger has spent his career — and his second career — straddling two worlds: journalism and ministry. A UW–Madison graduate (BA in sociology, 1971; MA in journalism, 1973), he spent 35 years at The Capital Times in Madison as a reporter, city editor, editorial page editor, and managing editor, and for years wrote a column on the intersection of faith and politics.

Phil grew up Catholic in Marinette, Wisconsin, and briefly considered the priesthood before coming to UW–Madison to study sociology. In 2000, he and his wife left the Catholic Church for the United Church of Christ; he entered the UCC's lay pastor program, was ordained in 2007, and served for a decade as pastor of Memorial United Church of Christ in Fitchburg before retiring in 2017. He later served as a parish associate at Christ Presbyterian Church in Madison, retiring again in 2024.

He was inducted into the Wisconsin Newspaper Association's Hall of Fame in 2021, named a distinguished alumnus of the UW–Madison School of Journalism and Mass Communication in 2022, and received the Governor's Council on Domestic Abuse's annual justice award in 2015 for mobilizing local faith communities to support victims of domestic violence. He is married to Ellen Reuter, and they have four adult children and seven grandchildren.

• UW–Madison Center for Journalism Ethics: https://ethics.sjmc.wisc.edu/
• Religion News Service: https://religionnews.com/
• The Capital Times: https://captimes.com/

Send us Fan Mail

CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour