Joel Miller is the co-founder of The SkyFloor, a digital agency he has run alongside his identical twin brother since 2008. The SkyFloor works across industries — churches, retail, education, and service organizations — with a philosophy centered on long-term partnerships and outcome-driven strategy rather than one-off deliverables. Joel writes regularly on digital strategy and business growth at theskyfloor.com/ideas.

• Why the highest-value work any agency or consultant does is enabling clients to become who they want to be — and why AI can't replicate that
• A real-world custom GPT case study: how 30–40 hours of human listening made AI call analysis actually work
• What AI Overviews are doing to organic click-through rates, ad keyword availability, and SERP composition
• Why owned audience channels — especially email — are now the most durable marketing asset in a Google-disrupted world
• The AI slop problem and why authentic human presence is becoming the scarcest commodity online

Joel opens by reframing what The SkyFloor actually sells: not services, but outcomes. He describes their team as problem solvers who work backward from what a client wants to become — whether that's a more efficient church, a retail brand competing online, or an education company ready to grow beyond referrals. That outcome-first philosophy maps onto what Jeremy calls the pyramid of value: executing a tactic at the base, saving time in the middle, and enabling the client to become who they want to be at the top. As Joel puts it, the human ingenuity required to genuinely partner with a client is still a distinctly human task — one AI cannot replicate at the top of that pyramid.

The conversation gets practical fast with Joel's sales call analysis case study. A client had lead conversion problems, and rather than feeding transcripts into a model, Joel listened to 30–40 hours of incoming calls himself — catching tone, the weight of a specific pause, the difference between enthusiasm and polite deflection. Once he'd mapped those human-observed patterns, he built a custom GPT framework and connected it to CallRail for automatic call scoring. The human defines the problem; AI scales the execution. Joel was equally candid about LLM limitations: ask an LLM for an answer and you've already biased the output. It is an answer engine, not an objective analyst — and the good prompt engineers know how to work around that tendency.

"An audience can't just be taken away if it's your audience, no matter what Google does next."

Joel is watching AI Overview impact in real time across his client accounts: impressions holding or growing, clicks down ~40%, and SERP layouts restructured so that for many queries, organic results appear nowhere above the fold. The composition is now AI Overview, then local pack, then sponsored results — organic is buried or absent. On the paid side, keyword categories that used to reliably trigger ad placements have been absorbed by overview content. His adaptation: heavier investment in high-intent near-me queries that still trigger standard ad slots, and a shift away from treating search volume as the primary planning input toward full SERP composition audits.

The most durable advice from the episode is Joel's audience ownership argument. He's actively steering clients toward email lists and direct subscriber relationships — assets that t...

This episode features Jeremy Rivera and digital marketing expert Matthew Slaymaker discussing actionable strategies for small businesses, the evolving landscape of digital ads, and leveraging AI tools for marketing efficiency. Whether you're running ads, optimizing your website, or navigating new platforms, this conversation offers practical insights to boost your marketing ROI.

Key Topics:

• The importance of website conversion rates before launching paid advertising
• How organic and paid traffic interact and influence each other
• The shift towards zero-click searches and its impact on organic CTR
• Latest trends in AI-driven advertising, including ChatGPT integrations and platforms like AppLeaven
• How creative quality influences ad success, especially on Facebook and Google
• Targeting strategies on different platforms, emphasizing broad vs. niche targeting
• Tracking calls and conversions effectively using tools like Call Rail and What Converts
• The significance of genuine brand storytelling and demonstrating values through content
• Managing social media presence without feeling forced—focusing on authentic channels like LinkedIn
• Agency growth through referrals, strategic partnerships, and overcoming inbound marketing challenges

Timestamps:

00:01 - Introduction and guest credibility
01:24 - Common mistakes small businesses make with ads
02:12 - The importance of website optimization before ad spend
03:07 - Impact of AI on SEO and website optimization
04:30 - The evolution of AI tools like ChatGPT for advertising
06:08 - New features in Google ads enabling direct checkout
07:13 - Access and limitations of ChatGPT for advertisers
12:05 - Using Google My Business and local signals for ranking
14:05 - Tracking call conversions with tools like Call Rail
19:41 - The role of engagement metrics in ad platform algorithms
21:17 - Creative as a primary driver in ad success
23:54 - Creative testing and diversity on Meta
26:25 - Marketing interesting, even boring, products through storytelling
29:30 - The pressure on SMBs to create video content for TikTok
36:37 - Leveraging AI for agentic marketing and workflow automation
41:44 - Agency growth challenges and inbound lead generation
45:35 - Repurposing podcast content for SEO and lead nurturing
47:22 - The irreplaceable value of human conversation and experience

Resources & Links:

• Call Rail
• What Converts
• Slaymaker Marketing
• SEO Arcade Podcast
• Royal (Content Repurposing Tool)
• Google My Business

Connect with Matt Slaymaker:

• LinkedIn
• Website

In this episode, Jeremy Rivera welcomes Drew Dorenfest to explore practical strategies for small businesses to harness SEO, reviews, and community engagement to boost their online presence and sales. Drew shares his background from Hollywood video editing to digital marketing, highlighting actionable tactics for local SEO, review management, and bridging IRL community efforts with online authority.

Key Topics:

• Drew’s transition from Hollywood film work to SEO and digital marketing
• The importance of reviews in local SEO rankings and client acquisition
• Practical steps for technical and content SEO for service-based businesses
• Using automation tools like Go High Level for review requests and email marketing
• How to craft effective CTAs and improve conversion rates on websites
• Entity and local authority optimization through citation of sources
• The role of community engagement and IRL activities in building brand trust
• Adapting SEO strategies in regulated industries like health and finance
• Building and refining a business around SEO services with minimal upfront planning

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to Drew Dorenfest and his background in Hollywood and SEO
02:28 - How Drew’s experience in video editing influences his SEO approach
04:17 - Starting and scaling Client Magnet CRM
05:45 - Key elements in local service SEO and technical website audits
07:19 - Using Go High Level for automations and review requests
09:06 - Optimizing homepage CTAs and micro-conversions for small businesses
10:28 - The importance of brand and branded search in SEO
12:55 - Citing sources and creating authoritative, rankable content
14:41 - Connecting IRL community efforts with online authority building
16:24 - Leveraging offline activities like farmers markets for brand engagement
17:27 - Building customer retention and re-engagement systems via email and SEO
19:24 - The evolution of SEO and the importance of branded search
21:36 - Rebranding pitfalls and maintaining brand equity
22:28 - Basic SEO foundational tips for small businesses
23:15 - Business planning and bootstrapping when launching an SEO-focused service
24:44 - The role of internships and structuring business growth
26:14 - Choosing to focus on core services like email and reviews rather than competing with giants
28:14 - Navigating regulated industries and compliance considerations
30:45 - How to connect with Drew and resources for further engagement

Resources & Links:

• Client Magnet CRM
• Go High Level
• Google Search Console
• Google’s AI & LLM Tools

Connect with Drew Dorenfest:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Website