Did you know that this podcast is produced by Digital Stormwater? Digital Stormwater B2B Visibility & Digital Marketing, making a difference in stormwater 1 click at a time! They do all things digital. Check them out at DigitalStormwater.com because the best-known beats best every time.

• 00:01 Ty introduces Andy and his background in geology, hydrology, and stormwater compliance.

• 01:50 Andy describes his early career in soil and groundwater remediation and the path that led him into stormwater.

• 04:49 Andy explains why stormwater work is meaningful for him and how he helps facilities navigate regulatory complexity.

• 09:04 Third party lawsuits and the emotional and financial burden they place on businesses.

• 10:56 Which sectors are affected most: primarily industrial facilities in California.

• 14:15 Breakdown of the Clean Water Act, benchmark levels, and how ambiguous standards create vulnerability.

• 20:57 Discussion of outdated benchmark levels from a 1992 study.

• 27:57 Is this only a California issue? Why California sees the vast majority of lawsuits.

• 30:14 How to prepare clients, documentation, training, and meeting the permit to strengthen negotiation positions.

• 34:09 A case involving a backyard t-shirt maker and how even tiny businesses can be pulled into the permit.

• 37:05 The only time Andy has seen a lawsuit go away: a massive corporation threatened to fight back in court.

• 43:46 Guidance for consultants: contracts, communication, clear roles, and professional protections.

• 55:00 Closing remarks and encouragement for professionals to join the conversation.

Andy Ellsmore

• “It is a communal and societal challenge that we have. It involves a lot of different players with a lot of different perspectives.”

• “The ambiguity in the Clean Water Act is really where a lot of this comes from.”

• “There is no protection for a permittee. You could be sued every other day or twice a day by different groups.”

• “Most clients want to be in compliance. Everybody cares about water quality.”

• “You are putting a large target on your back by complying with the stormwater rules.”

In this episode of the Stormwater World Podcast, Ty Garmon talks with licensed professional geologist Andy Ellsmore about the complex world of stormwater compliance and the growing impact of third party lawsuits on industrial facilities, particularly in California. Andy explains how ambiguous Clean Water Act standards, outdated benchmark levels, and limited regulatory enforcement create an environment where nonprofits fill the enforcement gap through 60 day notices and costly settlements. He shares real examples of businesses blindsided by litigation, the financial and emotional toll these actions create, and practical steps both facility owners and consultants can take to protect themselves. The conversation highlights the challenges facing stormwater professionals, the need for clearer regulatory guidance, and the importance of documentation, training, and maintaining clean facilities to reduce risk..

The views expressed are that of the individual and do not represent the opinions of any companies past, present or future.

Connect with Andy Ellsmore:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-ellsmore/

Email: andy@stormwater.pro

Website: https://www.stormwater.pro/ ; https://ellsmoreenv.com/

Connect with Ty Garmon, LEED AP:

Connect with Ty on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tygarmon/

Sign up to be a guest: https://forms.gle/whijSz9Tio3iZda57

Check out The Stormwater World Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hVXVJ5oXplf_V9XOPpR6A

Podcast Website: https://stormwaterworld.com

Stay Informed! Sign-up for the Stormwater World Newsletter: https://stormwaterworld.com/newsletter-sign-up/

Please don't forget to rate, comment, and subscribe to Stormwater World Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!

Did you know that this podcast is produced by Digital Stormwater? Digital Stormwater B2B Visibility & Digital Marketing, making a difference in stormwater 1 click at a time! They do all things digital. Check them out at DigitalStormwater.com because the best-known beats best every time.

• 00:00 Introduction

• 02:59 The Formation and Purpose of NMSA

• 06:00 Advocacy for MS4s at the National Level

• 09:10 Challenges and Resources for Local MS4 Programs

• 12:01 Training and Support for MS4s

• 15:00 The Importance of National Presence for Local Issues

• 17:52 Membership Structure and Benefits

• 21:06 National Stormwater Day and Its Significance

• 32:06 Stormwater Awareness Initiatives

• 34:10 Celebrating Stormwater Professionals

• 36:05 Recognizing Stormwater Champions

• 38:03 Engaging the Community in Stormwater Awareness

• 39:55 Membership Importance in Stormwater Organizations

• 41:20 Emeritus Membership and Institutional Knowledge

• 44:10 Introduction to STEPP Program

• 49:07 The Value of the Stormwater Sector

• 53:32 Moving Stormwater to the Adult Table

• Ty Garmon (08:40): “Nobody cares about stormwater unless it’s coming in their house.”

• Seth Brown (12:49): “We advocate as a 501c3 for our mission… to try to support MS4s… and make them more technically effective, more cost effective…”

• Seth Brown (23:02): “we don’t want to have a bioretention facility become considered waters of the US.”

• Seth Brown (47:xx): “can think of [STEP] as the consumer reports for stormwater infrastructure.”

In this episode of the Stormwater World Podcast, Ty Garmon talks with Dr. Seth Brown, Executive Director of NMSA, about why the alliance formed to give MS4 programs a unified national voice, how it advocates on issues like PFAS liability and Waters of the U.S., and the practical tools it offers members. They cover NMSA’s low-cost training and tracking, the open MS4 resource library, and membership options that fit both Phase I and Phase II communities. Seth explains National Stormwater Day on November 16 and how it recognizes the launch of the MS4 program while offering a free webinar and updates from Centers of Excellence. They dig into STEP, NMSA’s third-party testing effort meant to deliver clear, apples-to-apples performance data for proprietary BMPs. The episode closes with a call for stormwater to move from reactive work to proactive leadership and to claim its seat at the table.

The views expressed are that of the individual and do not represent the opinions of any companies past, present or future.

Connect with Seth Brown:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbrownpe/

Email:

Website: https://ms4nmsa.org/; https://nationalstormwateralliance.org/nmsa-resources/

National Stormwater Day: https://nationalstormwateralliance.org/nmsa-resources/

Stormwater Testing and Evaluation for Products & Practices (STEPP) https://ms4nmsa.org/stepp/ or https://stormwatertesting.org

Connect with Ty Garmon, LEED AP:

Connect with Ty on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tygarmon/

Sign up to be a guest: https://forms.gle/whijSz9Tio3iZda57

Check out The Stormwater World Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hVXVJ5oXplf_V9XOPpR6A

Podcast Website: https://stormwaterworld.com

Stay Informed! Sign-up for the Stormwater World Newsletter: https://stormwaterworld.com/newsletter-sign-up/

Please don't forget to rate, comment, and subscribe to Stormwater World Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!

Did you know that this podcast is produced by Digital Stormwater? Digital Stormwater B2B Visibility & Digital Marketing, making a difference in stormwater 1 click at a time! They do all things digital. Check them out at DigitalStormwater.com because the best-known beats best every time.

• Flexamat design: Concrete blocks with embedded geogrid over erosion control blankets. Designed to vegetate through 30 percent openings. Mowable surface when established.

• Install made simple: Delivered in wide, custom-length rolls. Unroll with an excavator. Start at outlets with an 18-inch trench, toe-in the terminal edge, and place tails so flow pushes into the overlap.

• Where it shines: Channels, slopes, shorelines, emergency spillways, riverbanks, WWTPs, drivable surfaces, airports, pipelines, landfills.

• Cost vs riprap: Riprap often wins on first cost, but repeated failure and maintenance can flip lifecycle value in Flexamat’s favor.

• Maintenance: Minimal after establishment. Mow if desired.

• Ron Geater: “My clients seem to prefer a material that’s a set it, forget it. You put it in, it works, you walk away.”

• Ron Geater: “There is no maintenance. If you do not want a two-foot stand of grass, then mow it.”

• Ron Geater: “All you need is a decent sized excavator to pick it up, place it, and use the bucket to unroll it.”

• Host (Ty): “Go watch the excavator set the roll and just bump the bucket to let it glide. It is the best.”

• Ron Geater: “Put ‘manufacturer’s rep on site at start of installation’ in the specs. If I am there, you are not going to have a failure.”

In this episode of the Stormwater World Podcast, Ty Garmon interviews Ron Geater from Motz Enterprises to discuss Flexamat, a vegetated hard armor solution for erosion control. They explore the product's features, benefits, installation process, real-world applications, cost comparisons with traditional solutions, and best practices for maintenance and installation. Ron shares success stories and challenges faced in the field, emphasizing the importance of proper installation to avoid failures. The conversation highlights the innovative nature of Flexamat and its role in sustainable stormwater management.

The views expressed are that of the individual and do not represent the opinions of any companies past, present or future.

Connect with Ron Geater:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ron-geater-1a188045/

Email: ron@flexamat.com

Website: https://www.flexamat.com/

Connect with Ty Garmon, LEED AP:

Connect with Ty on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tygarmon/

Sign up to be a guest: https://forms.gle/whijSz9Tio3iZda57

Check out The Stormwater World Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hVXVJ5oXplf_V9XOPpR6A

Podcast Website: https://stormwaterworld.com

Stay Informed! Sign-up for the Stormwater World Newsletter: https://stormwaterworld.com/newsletter-sign-up/

Please don't forget to rate, comment, and subscribe to Stormwater World Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!