Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. In this episode, Fergus speaks with Jessica Davis, Vice President of News Automation and AI Product at USA Today Network. Drawing on her extensive experience leading AI initiatives and capstone research at CUNY, Jessica addresses the critical challenge of scaling AI efficiently while preserving journalistic integrity.

She explains why constant manual oversight - having humans "in the loop" - creates operational bottlenecks and automation bias. Instead, she advocates for a "human on the loop" model, utilising structured AI evaluations and supervisory "evaluator" agents grounded in clear, data-informed metrics.

In this episode, Fergus and Jessica discuss:

• Maintaining Trust: Why "generative AI is probabilistic" and how to manage accuracy risks.
• Avoiding Oversight Fatigue: Moving past manual review without losing editorial control.
• Evolving Standards & Hallucinations: How "evaluator agents" fix errors and prove reliability.
• Embracing Industry Shifts: As Jessica notes: "I do think it's a natural step, and if it makes us uncomfortable, well, why? Let's sit with that a minute... and talk."

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is - and can be - used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders, practical thinking on the future of journalism, and honest conversations about what's working and what isn't, subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. In this episode, Fergus talks to journalist Simon Ingram to consider what journalism is doing right and wrong when covering the climate crisis. "Sell hell and you are a party pooper - sell joy and you're tone deaf." This self-contained paradox captures the entire editorial problem that journalists are facing.

As Simon says, "Climate journalism has traditionally relied on nobility of the audience, but it's folly to presume that people care about the greater good." So what techniques are there to pull people in and keep them invested? "It's not about saving the planet," Simon says. "It's about saving the human." Journalists need to reframe climate messaging away from supposed ideas of altruism toward the clearer goals of self-interest.

We can see how "words are moving quicker than the pictures" when headlines that describe crisis-level heat waves are paired with simple stock images of people eating ice cream and enjoying paddling pools. Journalism needs to inspire readers to live differently - to make them want to embrace change.

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is — and can be — used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders and practical thinking on the future of journalism, as well as honest conversations about what's working and what isn't, then subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. In this episose they consider Frontier AI, the story of Anthropic’s Mythos and the government-worrying levels of its capabilities. The power of Fable 5 and the regulation of frontier AI models. Are we at risk of losing access to US-owned technology? What about Chinese-owned “open-weight” models and the surge in demand they’ve created for Mac Minis. Should you build on the best models - and absorb the cost? - or the slightly less intelligent models that no one can turn off?

What are the risks for newsrooms and governments with “model sovereignty”? What about the “token tax” - for those people working in other languages than English? Should we think of AI as electricity, the energy behind what we all do? What AI is the safest to use? How do you get enough space, power and water to provide that service? Fergus and Tom consider Elon’s methane turbines (not a 90s indie band, btw) and the ability of governments to control how models are used.

What about the idea of publicly owned AI models? The question is, of course, is it a bubble? But how can an infrastructure be a bubble? The good news, Fable is back and Tom is happily token-maxing.

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is — and can be — used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders and practical thinking on the future of journalism, as well as honest conversations about what's working and what isn't, then subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. The second part of this deep dive into Sulzberger's speech considers whether there's a pressure not to dissent from the message of speeches like this one. Why weren't journalists asking more questions of OpenAI's Varun Shetty when they had the chance?

Does the news industry hold itself to the same standards it demands of the technology companies - and do audiences even understand that? Tom and Fergus look into the "simplistic" arguments around search, social media and advertising: where does the burden of responsibility really lie, what does future sustainability look like, and how do you learn from what's gone wrong?

Fergus tackles his "multiple problems" with Sulzberger's speech, and considers whether it's right that one news organisation gets to set the tone of the conversation. How do news organisations use AI in the right way? Is being a "destination for news" a soon-to-be outdated idea in an AI-intermediated world? What are the industry's standards, and how should it build trust with audiences? And if you believe in the power of AI, how do you build the technologies of the future? The Signal is here to spark the conversation.

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is — and can be — used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders and practical thinking on the future of journalism, as well as honest conversations about what's working and what isn't, then subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. This week: deconstructing New York Times Chairman and Publisher A.G. Sulzberger's keynote speech, "AI, Journalism, and the Uncertain Future of the Public Square," delivered at the World News Media Congress in Marseille.

What are the double-standards at play? Is the news industry treating the sources of its own stories properly, and what exactly is the transaction between journalist and source? As LLMs use news organisations' stories, who has access to that value, and how does Fair Use factor in? And what about freelancers, paid once for work that gets used forever - how, if at all, does that value move back to them?

Will news organisations "joining together," as with SPUR, actually help - or is it years too late? And can the industry take the risks and be bold enough to catch new audiences and new opportunities, rather than looking backwards and feeling slighted as it gets left behind?

If you want to understand how news is being created and distributed, how AI is - and can be - used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders, practical thinking on the future of journalism, and honest conversations about what's working and what isn't, subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. Have you ever wondered how journalism makes money? Or how news itself makes money? This episode is about the mechanics of journalism, so Tom and Fergus dig into a big spread of crucial topics: What is Reader Revenue? What about ad-blockers and paywalls? What about "mission driven" orgs and non-profits?

They look at the rise and rise of the New York Times' digital offering, Supporters vs Membership, Goalhanger's significant signal, the surprising rebirth of the Salt Lake Tribune, the FT's Weekend Festival and the journalism-as-theatre element of real-life experiences, merchandising for news creators, the incoming AI companies and their need for data, and the invite-only deals being signed.

Plus: the deeply philanthropic afterlife of Craig Newmark's Craigslist. Do you remember the Facebook-driven "Pivot To Video"? All that, plus Spider-Man, Harry Potter, and what Fergus noticed about Vienna…

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is — and can be — used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders and practical thinking on the future of journalism, as well as honest conversations about what's working and what isn't, then subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. Fergus and Tom are in Marseille at the World News Congress and in this episode they talk to Olalla Maria Novoa Ojea, the Head of AI at Prisa Media, the world's largest Spanish and Portuguese-language media and entertainment group.

Olalla is a working journalist, not a tech evangelist, who's spent her career inside the machine. She started as a Fulbright-funded Wall Street correspondent in the US before coordinating editions for the Wall Street Journal, then ran breaking news and digital innovation at El Mundo back in Spain. Now at Prisa Media, her standout project is Victoria - a synthetic voice built from scratch, dubbed “The Voice of Soccer”. She also led VerificAudio, an experimental Spanish-language audio deepfake detection tool for journalists. Olalla knows all about practical AI, applied editorially.

Fergus and Tom talk to her about the shift from newsrooms to AI, the conversational experience of Voice products and chatbots like Alexa or Siri, the AI world before ChatGPT. They discuss using LLMs for rigorous work, the protection of “super-valuable” intellectual property, why it’s important to read the fine print, plus what is “shadow IT” and why are some people using AI in secret?

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is - and can be - used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders and practical thinking on the future of journalism - as well as honest conversations about what’s working, and what isn’t - then subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to The Signal, hosted by Fergus Bell and Tom Trewinnard. In this episode, Fergus and Tom talk to Micah Gelman and Lauren Saks from Local News International, the poster kids of the independent news brand universe. Founded mid-2025 when Dave Jorgenson, Lauren and Micah all left the Washington Post, LNI is a creator-led newsroom built on video, newsletters and direct audience relationships.

Gelman spent a decade as the Post's Head of Video, winning Pulitzers, Emmys, Murrows and Webbys; Saks, as Deputy Head of Video, built Washington Post Universe and its TikTok/YouTube operation. In just under a year, LNI has pulled in 375,000 YouTube subscribers and a “one-to-one relationship” with their 15,000 newsletter subscribers. Theirs is a two-pronged business: Jorgenson’s “artful, custom” daily video posts and the company’s work in helping other organisations to develop in-house talent and build a meaningful audience. Their big lesson? Being independent means you can’t ever stop - it's a non-stop push to move forward. Side quest - what’s the worst kind of slop? Find out within.

If you want to understand how the news is being created and distributed, how AI is - and can be - used in newsrooms, insights from media leaders and practical thinking on the future of journalism - as well as honest conversations about what’s working, and what isn’t - then subscribe and follow to stay close to The Signal.

Fergus and Tom will be here every week. Find The Signal on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced by Rob Fitzpatrick

Edited by James Bullock

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.