What happens when we enter a conversation with someone we assume is different from us? Social psychologist Claude Steele argues that the tension and nerves we feel may have less to do with prejudice than we think. In his new book, Churn, Claude explores how identity threats can affect our performance and relationships, why we fear being misjudged, and how empathy, listening, and understanding can help reduce that tension and foster trust. We discuss why context matters, how our attitudes can follow our behavior, and why “colorblindness” can make it harder to understand another person’s experience.

[0:00] Introduction and Speed Round with Claude Steele

[11:28] Does attitude follow behavior?

[15:02] What exactly is “churn”?

[20:12] The fear of being stereotyped

[30:21] Trust as the antidote to tension

[35:31] Can you really be “colorblind?”

[47:48] Barack Obama and the cross-identity bridge to understanding

[53:40] Why you need to look at circumstances

[1:01:58] Desert Island Music

[1:07:05] Grooving Session: Why our brains churn

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Churn: The Tension That Divides Us and How to Overcome It

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