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What if the biggest threat to underground safety is not technology, but our refusal to change?

Mike Sullivan talks with long time damage prevention consultant and investor Jemmie Wang about why the industry feels “safe enough” even as enormous hidden societal costs pile up from every cut fibre and broken line.

Together they explore how advances like affordable high accuracy GPS, smarter ticket management, online locate requests, deep AI mapping, and Alternate Locate Provider models are already proving they can slash damages, yet are still held back by rigid legislation, misaligned incentives, and risk averse culture.

They compare Canadian and US approaches, question whether current 811 structures actually serve the people who use them, and ask if slogans like “call before you dig” and “50 in 5” are distracting from the real work of changing the rules of the game.

The conversation circles back again and again to one challenge for boards, executives, locators, and contractors alike: finding the courage to embrace new tools, new models and more flexible laws before the next crisis forces their hand.

Listen For:

4:10 What damage prevention technologies have changed the game in the last decade
7:11 Why does the industry keep doing more of the same instead of embracing new tools
16:31 Should damage prevention rely on more legislation less legislation or something in between
30:10 Why is click before you dig safer and why is it still a hard sell in the United States
56:58 What can Alternate Locate Providers and an Uber style model do to transform locating and reduce damages

Jemmie Wang
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What happens when an entire industry decides it’s time to build a new home from the ground up?

Mike Sullivan sits down with Bruce Campbell, Mark Frost, and Roger Lipscomb—the visionary team behind the Facility Notification Center Association (FNCA).

This passionate conversation traces the FNCA's superhero-style origin story, born from the ashes of older systems, into a modern, unified trade association serving 80% of North American notification centers.

From candid reflections on industry fragmentation to the power of collaborative leadership and servant-driven innovation, this episode dives deep into the necessity of FNCA, its mission, and its bright future.

It's a rich exploration of how facility notification centers are banding together—not just to adapt, but to lead.

Listen For:

6:10 What is the history behind North America’s One Call centers?

13:07 Why did One Calls of America and OCSI need to evolve?

29:36 What were the hurdles in transforming OCOA into the FNCA?

37:15 What goals are driving the FNCA’s strategic plan forward?

48:20 How is FNCA future-proofing for AI, volume spikes, and industry change?

Facility Notification Center Association (FNCA)

Connect with guest Mark Frost

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Bruce Campbell

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Roger Lipscomb

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What do two clipped fibre optic cables have in common with a $77 million disaster? More than you think.

Mike Sullivan recounts a personal travel nightmare that snowballed into a hard-hitting reflection on the staggering societal costs of utility damage.

What began as a delayed flight turned into an eye-opening experience involving 1,800 disrupted flights, 235,000 stranded passengers, and millions in lost productivity, business, and environmental damage—all traced back to a simple infrastructure mishap.

Mike breaks down the direct and indirect costs of such incidents, explores the gaps in utility protection and reporting laws, and emphasizes the critical importance of submitting locate requests.

Listen for:

1:05 How Did a Travel Delay Reveal a Bigger Safety Issue?

4:13 How Does Buried Utility Damage Impact Society at Large?

08:27 What Does $77 Million in Damage Look Like in Real Life?

17:29 Why Do Airlines Operate on Razor-Thin Profit Margins?

25:08 Can Repeat Offenders in Utility Damage Be Held Accountable?

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