What if instead of racing to solve problems, you paused to map the entire system first? In this episode, Hannah sits down with Sheryl Cababa—author of Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers and founder of Optimistic Design—to talk about what it really means to design for complexity. From AI adoption to organizational policy changes, Sheryl brings a systems lens to the decisions leaders make (often too hastily) in fast-moving environments.

They explore how design leaders can avoid short-sighted thinking, better understand stakeholder dynamics, and use accessible tools to facilitate organizational change that actually sticks. Whether you're planning your back-to-office strategy or rethinking your product's impact, this conversation will leave you re-evaluating how your decisions ripple through the system.

Resources from this episode:

• Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletter
• Connect with Sheryl on LinkedIn
• Sheryl’s book — Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers
• Check out Optimistic Design

The “AI is coming for your job” headlines have been exhausting—especially if you're a software engineer. But as Cortex.io founder Anish Dhar explains, engineering isn’t dying; it's evolving. In this episode, Hannah sits down with Anish to unpack what engineering excellence actually means in 2025, why measuring developer productivity is still wildly misunderstood, and where AI coding tools fit into the real world of production-scale systems. Spoiler: you can’t vibe-code your way to a million users.

Anish draws from his time at Uber and Cortex to break down how engineering leaders can better align technical initiatives to business outcomes, adopt AI without sacrificing code quality, and avoid getting swept up in hype cycles that don’t serve the organization.

Resources from this episode:

• Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletter
• Connect with Anish on LinkedIn and X
• Check out Cortex.io
• IDPCON — in-person event dedicated to Internal Developer Portals

What does passion really look like on a product team? In this episode, Hannah sits down with Norma Løvhaugen, VP Strategy at Neat, to unpack how passion fuels team collaboration, customer empathy, and a culture of innovation. They explore the difference between building products with passion versus simply shipping features—and why that distinction matters more than ever in an age of generative AI.

Norma shares how Neat channels passion into a uniquely cohesive product experience, from obsessing over fabric swatches to translating human nuance into video conferencing. It’s a conversation about ownership, trust, and the magic that happens when design and engineering speak the same language (and respect each other's craft).

Resources from this episode:

• Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletter
• Connect with Norma on LinkedIn
• Check out Neat