AI can solve Olympic-level math problems... and still fumble basic arithmetic. So what gives? According to Dhruv Batra, the answer lies in the “jaggedness” of intelligence—how AI can excel in some areas while completely breaking down in others. Dhruv, co-founder and Chief Scientist at Yutori, joins Hannah Clark to unpack the cognitive dissonance users feel when a model dazzles one moment and disappoints the next.

They explore how user expectations—shaped by decades of intuitive UI patterns and human conversations—often collide with the underlying limits of AI systems. From browser agents and automation to long-term feedback loops and trust-building, this conversation is a candid look at what today’s AI can actually do (and where it’s still bluffing). If you’re building with AI or trying to scope what’s possible, this one will recalibrate your expectations—in a good way.

Resources from this episode:

• Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletter
• Connect with Dhruv on LinkedIn
• Check out Dhruv’s website and Yutori

There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors in product right now—especially when it comes to AI. Shiny tools and slick prototypes are masquerading as production-ready solutions, and teams are feeling the pressure to keep up. But what happens when the hype outpaces the fundamentals?

Hannah sits down with Matt Graney, CPO of Celigo, to talk about bad product plays in disguise—from vibe coding and no-code illusions to AI-fueled shortcuts that chip away at real product rigor. With decades in B2B product and a track record scaling teams, Matt offers a sharp, grounded view on what’s actually changing, what’s staying the same, and how to keep your product sense intact through it all.

Resources from this episode:

• Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletter
• Connect with Matt on LinkedIn
• Check out Celigo

Every product manager obsesses over leadership styles, onboarding flows, and GTM strategies—but what if the biggest differentiator of success comes down to something much simpler? Learning. In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Maxine Anderson, Co-Founder and CPO of Arist, a text-based learning platform that flips traditional corporate education on its head.

Maxine started her career in rural Oregon classrooms, where she saw firsthand how inaccessible and ineffective most learning environments were. That experience sparked the idea behind Arist: meeting people where they already are, through tools like SMS, Slack, and Teams. What follows is a candid conversation about why more content doesn’t equal more learning, the real barriers that keep employees from growing, and how AI is reshaping not just education—but how organizations function.

Resources from this episode:

• Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletter
• Connect with Maxine on LinkedIn
• Check out Arist