A crossover episode with Eric Calderon of Surviving Animation, recorded with Andy and Eric fresh off the ground in Annecy while Jo and Emily nurse their FOMO from home. It's the second collaboration between the two podcasts, and the energy carries that — equal parts industry analysis and genuine enthusiasm for the world's oldest animation festival, which Eric was attending for the first time in 14 years.

Eric's framing of Annecy as "the perfect picnic" runs through the whole conversation: a rare alignment of factors — a beautiful lake town, a film festival with genuinely pure independent roots, a market (MIFA) that hasn't been allowed to swallow the festival whole, and a decentralised structure that means choosing one screening means missing five others. The AI conversation gets a sharper edge than in other episodes: Eric describes a genuinely tribal atmosphere, where it's socially acceptable to be loudly anti-AI but considered "punching down" to push back the other way. Both Eric and Andy note the split between students nervous about junior roles disappearing and senior executives trying to figure out workflow integration, with a quieter middle ground that exists but speaks less loudly.

Anime emerges as the other dominant theme — not as a trend but as something Eric compares to hip-hop: permanently embedded in the culture, with everyone from the Tokyo government to a hitchhiking Czech animation collective to Warner Bros trying to find their way in. Eric's term for non-Japanese anime-influenced work, "cowboy anime," gets a real airing, alongside the Toei Animation producer's prediction that the future of anime won't be exclusively Japanese-made. There's also a sharp, important critique buried in the conversation: Eric's worry that Annecy is drifting toward becoming a B2C event dominated by corporate slate announcements, and his observation that the real energy and the real audience — the students lining up in the banlieue — are being overlooked by an industry fixated on the Imperial hotel crowd. The episode closes, fittingly, with Eric plugging his Flow-licensed merchandise line and everyone agreeing to make it to Annecy together in person next year.