Why do Republicans and Democrats live in different factual universes? The answer traces back to 1973 and three conservative staffers who transformed how America makes policy.

Professor E.J. Fagan, author of "The Thinkers," explains how partisan think tanks replaced neutral expertise with competing knowledge regimes—and why smart, educated people are actually easier to fool than everyone else.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why the Heritage Foundation was founded and how it changed American politics

• How the 2009 stimulus bill demonstrates the cost of ideological capture

• Why it's easier to fool intelligent, motivated people than those who are less informed

• The difference between think tanks in the US versus other democracies

• Why Project 2025 may be less influential than people think

• Organizations like the Niskanen Center and R Street Institute that are getting it right

Professor Fagan argues the solution isn't neutral centrism;' it's politically engaged organizations with epistemic integrity.

As we face decisions about AI deployment, climate adaptation, and economic transformation, we need information infrastructure that serves democracy.

Key insight: "Don't try to take the politics out of information, but try to get it right."

Guest: Professor E.J. Fagan, Associate Professor of Political Science at the University of Illinois Chicago and author of "The Thinkers: The Rise of Partisan Think Tanks and the Polarization of American Politics" (Oxford University Press)