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The promise was a more fair, efficient, and democratic hiring process. So why are ageism, gender bias, and racial inequality in the pipeline actually getting worse?

In this episode of The Human Code, Don Finley sits down with Shana Pederson — legal tech veteran, recruiter, and Fellow at For Humanity — to unpack what's really going wrong at the intersection of AI and hiring. They dig into the dead internet theory and its eerie parallel to today's job market, why the "human in the loop" is in the wrong place, and who gets left behind when the hiring process becomes a game only tech-savvy candidates can win.

Shana also shares hard-won practical advice for job seekers navigating this challenging landscape — including the one thing that's still working no matter how broken the tools are.

Table of Contents:

Introduction & Shana's Background — 0:00 Don welcomes Shana and she shares how her decades as a recruiter, combined with her work as a Fellow at For Humanity, shaped her interest in the ethics of AI and hiring.

Is AI a Net Benefit in Recruiting Right Now? — 2:25 Shana breaks down the original promise of AI as the "democratizer" of staffing, and why the reality has fallen short — largely because these tools were built on human data, complete with human bias.

The Dead Internet Theory Meets the Job Market — 6:39 Don introduces the dead internet theory — the idea that bots now outnumber real humans online — and Shana explains how that same dynamic has infected the hiring pipeline with ghost jobs, automated applications, and bot noise.

Who Gets Left Behind: The Socioeconomic Divide — 9:58 Playing the modern job search game requires tools, time, and tech skills. Shana warns that this creates a steep and largely invisible barrier for anyone who isn't senior-level, tech-adjacent, or financially able to pay for AI tools.

Your Network Is Still Your Net Worth — 12:49 Despite all the noise, 98% of the people Shana speaks with are finding jobs through their personal networks. Don and Shana explore why human relationships remain the most reliable path through a broken system.

The Gamification of Hiring & What It Costs Everyone — 16:47 When the process rewards game-players over great employees, everyone loses — candidates, hiring managers, and companies alike. Shana also discusses the impact on people with disabilities and neurodivergent job seekers.

Cognitive Bias, Emotional Intelligence & Building Better Tools — 22:26 The conversation turns to multi-stakeholder feedback, why we can't eliminate bias (but can recognize and mitigate it), and the very human challenge of hearing that your "baby" has flaws.

Practical Tips for Job Seekers Today — 27:48 Shana's top advice: lean into continuous learning (MIT's full catalog just went free), volunteer in your community, and don't be afraid to ask your network for help. She also offers a compassionate take on AI resistance and how to ease into it on your own terms.

Closing & For Humanity — 32:16 Shana shares how listeners can get involved with For Humanity — a global community working to build ethical, human-centered AI audit criteria.

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In this episode, Don Finley sits down with marketing strategist Adam Levin to explore what it really means to be authentic in a world increasingly driven by artificial intelligence. From brand voice and personal identity to parenting, entrepreneurship, and extreme ownership, this conversation is a fast-paced, no-BS dive into the fundamentals that will never go out of style — no matter how advanced the technology gets.

Whether you're a founder trying to find your voice, a marketer navigating the AI landscape, or just someone who wants to build deeper, more meaningful connections, this episode is for you.

Table of Contents

The AI vs. Authenticity Debate — 0:00 Don and Adam kick things off with the central tension of the episode: how do you stay authentic and human in a world obsessed with AI-generated content? Adam makes the case that real marketing requires real people.

What Does Authentic Brand Voice Actually Mean? — 6:30 Adam breaks down his approach as a market strategist — getting deep inside a founder's vision and translating it into a brand experience that resonates with customers.

AI as a Buyer: How the Web Is Changing — 2:26 Don raises a fascinating angle: as AI becomes the one browsing your website, what does that mean for how you present your business? Trust architecture takes center stage.

Using AI to Amplify Your Voice (Not Replace It) — 3:51 Don shares how he uses transcripts and AI tools to capture and preserve his natural speaking voice — rather than letting AI flatten it into generic content.

Personal Brand vs. Company Brand — 8:12 The guys explore the overlap and the difference between who you are as a person and what your business represents — and why founders often have to learn to separate the two.

The KFD Framework: Know, Feel, Do — 14:39 Adam introduces a powerful messaging framework: What do you want your audience to know, feel, and do? A simple but transformative lens for any brand communication.

The Fundamentals That Will Never Change — 18:13 Trust. Connection. Relationships. No matter how much technology evolves, Adam (at 61 years old) says these are the things that will always drive business and life.

Lessons from Parenting That Apply to Business — 11:13 Both Don and Adam draw parallels between raising kids and building a company — including the hard lesson of stepping back and letting go of your ego.

Telling Clients Their Baby Is Ugly — 20:52 A candid conversation about what it takes to deliver hard truths with honesty, humor, and care — and why the best consultants know how to walk that line.

Advice for the Next Generation Entering the Workforce — 22:44 Adam shares the career mindset he's instilled in his own kids: stop thinking about what the company can do for you, and start thinking about what you can do for the organization.

Extreme Ownership & Moving Forward — 24:37 Inspired by Jocko Willink's Extreme Ownership, Adam and Don wrap up with a reminder that owning your mistakes — without excuses — is one of the most powerful things you can do in business and in life.

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In this episode of The Human Code, Don Finley sits down with Jarod Bowersett — sales veteran, entrepreneur, and co-founder of HeyRafi — to explore the fascinating intersection of AI, sales, and what it means to be human in an era of rapid technological change.

Jarod shares hard-won lessons from 15 years of building high-ticket sales teams, why the "unsexy" fundamentals of sales still matter, and how AI voice agents are quietly transforming how businesses connect with prospects. The conversation expands into the future of SaaS, agentic commerce, the role of human relationships in enterprise deals, and a thought-provoking vision of what work — and life — might look like when AI handles the grind.

Whether you're a founder, a salesperson, or just someone trying to make sense of where technology is taking us, this episode is packed with candid insights and real-world perspective.

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Table of Contents

Introductions & Jared's Background — 0:00 Don welcomes Jarod and they kick off with Jarod's origin story: 15 years building sales teams and closing multi-million dollar deals, and what drew him to the messy, unsexy reality of high-ticket sales.

The Real Secret to Sales: Just Follow Up — 1:30 Jarod breaks down why relentless follow-up is the most underrated (and undervalued) skill in sales, and how figuring that out changed everything for him.

HeyRafi: AI That Makes Outbound Sales Calls — 3:02 An introduction to HeyRafi and what it actually means to replace a sales rep with an AI that calls, texts, and emails prospects at scale.

Will People Actually Talk to an AI? The Data Says Yes — 4:58 Jarod shares surprising data on how people respond to AI-driven outreach — and why most callers simply don't care if it's a robot, as long as it serves them well.

What Excites Jarod Most About AI in Sales — 8:28 The vision of a future where salespeople spend their entire day on quality discovery and demo calls — with AI handling all the prospecting grunt work.

Will Micro-SaaS Disappear? — 10:44 Jarod poses a friendly debate: does the rise of AI agents kill micro-SaaS products? Don shares why micro-SaaS may be the most vulnerable segment — and what larger platforms still have going for them.

The Shift from Per-Seat Licensing to Usage-Based Models — 12:47 Don points to Atlassian's declining enterprise seat sales and the broader trend toward compute- and outcome-based pricing. Jarod connects this to HeyRafi's own experiments with usage-based distribution.

Selling to Agents: The Future of B2B Discovery — 14:50 How do you sell a product when the buyer's first touchpoint is an AI agent doing comparison research? Don and Jarod explore what "agent-friendly" marketing might look like.

Human Relationships Still Win in High-Ticket Sales — 17:47 Despite all the automation, both agree: for seven- and eight-figure deals, the human element isn't going anywhere. Emotional connection, trust, and the ability to "shake a hand" still close contracts.

AI, Time, and the 50% Net Margin Future — 22:39 Jarod's personal take on what AI gives back most: time. He paints a picture of a near future where lean, AI-first companies run at 50%+ net margins with a fraction of today's headcount.

New Jobs We Can't Imagine Yet — 25:31 Don reflects on how "content creator" didn't exist when they were growing up — and asks what the next unimaginable job category will be as AI frees up human potential.

Entrepreneurship for Everyone & Sacred Economics — 26:15 A philosophical stretch: what if AI lowered the barriers to entrepreneurship so much that everyone could be a builder? Don references Sacred Economics and the idea that commoditized intelligence makes real-world, human experiences more valuable than ever.

Closing Thoughts: Be Curious — 30:09 Jarod leaves the audience with one simple piece of advice — and Don wraps up a wide-ranging, thought-provoking conversation.

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In this episode, guest Bill McLane joins the conversation to share his journey through more than 30 years in the technology industry, from early coding rooms to co-founding Apon AI. The discussion explores the critical role of empathy in technical support and why maintaining a human touch is essential even as AI voice agents and automation become more prevalent. Bill offers profound insights on business leadership, the evolving landscape of AI development, and his philosophy that "work-life balance" is simply "all life". Whether you are an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned professional, this episode provides a unique perspective on leveraging modern tools like ChatGPT and Claude while staying grounded in core human values and family.

Table of Contents:

• The Importance of Empathy in Technology (01:04): The guest explains his motivation for becoming a "go-between" for technical experts and everyday users, emphasizing the need for empathy when solving catastrophic technical issues.
• Simplifying Tech-Speak for the Boardroom (03:35): A discussion on the art of communicating complex AI concepts without overusing jargon or being condescending to diverse audiences.
• The Genesis of Apon AI (05:04): Bill recounts how he and his partner transitioned from their backgrounds in telecommunications to building their own AI voice agent platform.
• Managing the "Fire Hose" of AI Innovation (08:50): How business leaders can stay sane amidst the rapid pace of AI releases by focusing on customer problems rather than chasing every new technical curve.
• A Unique Approach to Global Hiring (12:00): Insights into building a self-funded, global team where personality and empathy are prioritized over technical skills during the hiring process.
• Accelerated Development and AI Tools (15:07): Comparing the long development cycles of the past to today’s rapid prototyping, including how the team uses AI to build internal tools and curriculum in hours.
• Philosophy on Life and Work (27:00): A deep dive into why "work-life balance" is a misnomer, the value of being present for family milestones, and treating a company like a larger family.
• The Future Impact of AI on the Economy (35:11): Bill shares his optimistic view of AI as a tool for opportunity, comparing its current disruption to historical milestones like the automobile and electricity.

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Hosted by Don Finley

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In this episode, guest Bill McLane joins the conversation to share his journey through more than 30 years in the technology industry, from early coding rooms to co-founding Apon AI. The discussion explores the critical role of empathy in technical support and why maintaining a human touch is essential even as AI voice agents and automation become more prevalent. Bill offers profound insights on business leadership, the evolving landscape of AI development, and his philosophy that "work-life balance" is simply "all life". Whether you are an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned professional, this episode provides a unique perspective on leveraging modern tools like ChatGPT and Claude while staying grounded in core human values and family.

Table of Contents:

• The Importance of Empathy in Technology (01:04): The guest explains his motivation for becoming a "go-between" for technical experts and everyday users, emphasizing the need for empathy when solving catastrophic technical issues.
• Simplifying Tech-Speak for the Boardroom (03:35): A discussion on the art of communicating complex AI concepts without overusing jargon or being condescending to diverse audiences.
• The Genesis of Apon AI (05:04): Bill recounts how he and his partner transitioned from their backgrounds in telecommunications to building their own AI voice agent platform.
• Managing the "Fire Hose" of AI Innovation (08:50): How business leaders can stay sane amidst the rapid pace of AI releases by focusing on customer problems rather than chasing every new technical curve.
• A Unique Approach to Global Hiring (12:00): Insights into building a self-funded, global team where personality and empathy are prioritized over technical skills during the hiring process.
• Accelerated Development and AI Tools (15:07): Comparing the long development cycles of the past to today’s rapid prototyping, including how the team uses AI to build internal tools and curriculum in hours.
• Philosophy on Life and Work (27:00): A deep dive into why "work-life balance" is a misnomer, the value of being present for family milestones, and treating a company like a larger family.
• The Future Impact of AI on the Economy (35:11): Bill shares his optimistic view of AI as a tool for opportunity, comparing its current disruption to historical milestones like the automobile and electricity.

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In this episode, Don sits down with Brian Feinberg, the founder and CTO of the Tomorrow Company, to explore the rapidly evolving landscape of artificial intelligence and its integration with human experience. Brian shares insights from his 14-year journey in machine learning and automation, discussing whether modern technology truly "understands" its actions. The conversation delves into the vision behind the Tomorrow Company, its focus on capturing opportunities at the intersection of Web3 and AI, and the development of innovative financial products like the Carbon Utility Token. They also discuss the "dead internet theory," the importance of trustless environments, and how AI is revolutionizing productivity through "dark software factories" and rapid prototyping. Brian provides a forward-looking perspective on the next five years, emphasizing institutional adoption of blockchain, the need for seamless user interactions, and the critical role of authenticity in a world of large language models.

Table of Contents

The Concept of AI Understanding (00:00 - 00:50)

The speakers discuss whether current technology has reached a point where it understands its own actions, exploring the idea that AI-human interaction is becoming increasingly intertwined and conversational.

Introduction of Brian Feinberg (00:51 - 01:58)

Don introduces Brian Feinberg, founder and CTO of the Tomorrow Company, who reflects on his long history in machine learning and the transition from process automation to modern AI.

Testing AI and the Need for Execution (01:59 - 03:45)

Brian emphasizes that while we expect conversation and obedience from AI, the ultimate goal is execution, which frees up human time for deeper philosophical pursuits.

Vision of the Tomorrow Company (03:46 - 07:35)

Brian outlines the vision for the Tomorrow Company, focusing on innovation at the intersection of Web3, AI, and Real World Assets (RWA) to unlock capital liquidity and build vertical intelligence.

Carbon Utility Tokens and Financial Indexes (07:36 - 09:29)

The discussion shifts to specific projects, including the Carbon Utility Token—which represents real carbon credits on-chain—and the creation of proprietary data indexes for top carbon and tech companies.

Web3 Browser and the Agentic Era (09:30 - 11:28)

Brian describes an experimental Web3 browser and network designed for secure application connectivity as we enter an "agentic era" where AI agents deliver requested services.

The Dead Internet Theory and Trust (11:29 - 12:41)

The conversation explores the "dead internet theory"—the idea that most online interaction will eventually be with bots—and the necessity of building trustless environments through technology.

The Golden Era of Productivity and Dark Software Factories (12:42 - 14:46)

Brian explains how AI has drastically reduced the number of employees needed to generate high revenue, mentioning their "dark software factory" that merges code automatically without human involvement.

Rapid Prototyping and the Role of Creativity (14:47 - 18:24)

A look inside the Tomorrow Company's lab reveals a 30-day process for launching products, where one AI might prompt another to design user interfaces and experiences in just hours.

Authentic Engagement and Democratized Research (18:25 - 23:00)

Brian discusses how AI-driven real-time analysis is disrupting expensive traditional research firms and allowing companies to engage authentically with global audiences across multiple languages.

Regulatory Compliance and Tokenization (23:01 - 26:39)

The importance of managing the full lifecycle of a token within regulatory guidelines is highlighted, noting that the next generation of public companies will be built on tokenized assets.

Predictions for the Next Five Years (26:40 - 32:57)

Brian predicts massive institutional adoption of blockchain, the inclusion of half a billion new users through seamless "one-click" interactions, and a continued focus on specific AI use cases to maintain authenticity.

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In this episode, experts explore the critical intersection of business fundamentals and the rapid evolution of artificial intelligence. The conversation delves into the shift from repetitive task-based roles to judgment-driven expertise, emphasizing that while robots are taking over automated tasks, human judgment and tribal knowledge remain a company's most valuable intellectual property. The discussion also provides a strategic framework for leaders to classify AI agents and implement essential security measures, such as virtual desktop interfaces (VDI) and VPNs, to protect corporate data in an increasingly agentic world.

Table of Contents

The Role of Human Judgment in an AI-Driven Business

• (01:30) Discussion on why teams are increasingly needed for their judgment and decision-making processes rather than just raw intelligence.

Defining the Fundamentals of Business and AI

• (06:31) An exploration of "Mateoisms" regarding business roles, functions, and processes designed to deliver value using tools like AI to scale repetitive tasks.

Managing by Exception and Proactive Problem Solving

• (08:41) How to utilize agents to handle high volumes of tasks while escalating complex exceptions to human experts for proactive process optimization.

The Three Classifications of AI Agents

• (17:44) A strategic breakdown of agent types: built-in software agents, platform services on demand, and unauthorized rogue endpoint use cases.

Securing the Agentic Environment

• (18:24) Critical security protocols for leaders, including the reintroduction of VDI and corporate VPNs to prevent data exposure through AI agent credentials.

The Transition of the Workforce and Industry Evolution

• (40:02) Analyzing historical industry shifts, such as the automotive and mobile phone revolutions, to understand the current reduction of overhead and the "gig mindset."

Strategic Implementation: What NOT to Automate

• (33:52) A decision matrix for leaders to identify processes that should remain human-centric due to legal, regulatory, or high-risk relationship factors.

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In this episode, guest Mary Kotch joins the show to discuss the evolving intersection of humanity and technology. Drawing from her extensive career beginning with early data processing to her current role as an AI fellow, Mary shares deep insights into how artificial intelligence is moving beyond simple automation to drive preventative healthcare and streamlined corporate workflows. The conversation explores the practical application of Agentic AI, the importance of data-centric engineering, and strategic advice for both startups and Fortune 500 companies navigating the rapid shift toward an AI-forward future.

Table of Contents

Introduction to Agentic AI Workflows (00:00)

The speaker describes the power of Agentic AI by recounting how they rapidly built a functional Jira alternative and a complete insurance policy workflow from email to rating during a single afternoon.

The Intersection of Humanity and Technology (00:56)

Mary Kotch is introduced and shares her background, reflecting on how her interest in technology was sparked in the 1980s and developed through her education at Penn State.

AI’s Impact on Healthcare and Elder Care (03:13)

Mary discusses her current work with C10 Labs and healthcare startups, highlighting an AI-driven WhatsApp application designed to help the Hispanic elderly population manage medications.

Preventative Care and Real-Time Clinical Data (06:38)

The discussion shifts to how AI is used for risk mitigation and preventative healthcare by aggregating medical data to predict necessary doctor visits and assist clinicians with real-time patient care.

The Adoption Curve and Generational Shifts (09:53)

The speakers analyze the transition toward "dark factories" for software and predict that AI adoption will accelerate as the baby boomer generation retires from major corporations.

Bridging the Gap: Data, Engineering, and Cyber Security (13:14)

Mary emphasizes the critical need for a "data lens" in AI development, noting that many organizations rely too heavily on engineers without sufficient focus on data and cyber security.

The Future of Corporate AI Training and Transformation (18:14)

The conversation explores how organizations should restructure by turning service desk roles into AI trainers and using "pod" approaches to embed AI engineers directly into business departments.

Personalized Software and the Shift in SAS (25:00)

Mary illustrates how AI is challenging traditional software-as-a-service (SAS) providers by allowing users to build highly personalized tools, such as custom underwriting platforms, in a matter of hours.

Strategic Advice for AI Implementation (34:36)

In closing, Mary advises organizations to "slow down" and thoroughly document their current operations before using large language models to remodel their business and save costs.

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