In 2013, taxi drivers were beginning to notice something unusual: unmarked, black cars were cutting them off in taxi lines and picking up their passengers. Little did these drivers know that those black cars were the start of Uber — and it wasn’t just going to destroy the taxi industry, but wage labor as we knew it.

More like this: REAL Resistance — Against Automated Governments

In this episode, Alix Dunn sits down with Veena Dubal, one of the leading experts on gig labor and Professor of Law at the University of California, Irvine School of Law. Veena shares with us her firsthand account of the Uberization of everything from the beginning to now. She breaks down how this seemingly-innocuous ride sharing app would lead to algorithmic wage fixing around the world and the gamblification of workers’ lives.

Further reading & resources:

• On Algorithmic Wage Discrimination — Veena Dubal
• AI Shouldn’t Be Setting Prices or Wages. States Need to Push Back. — Veena Dubal, 2026
• How artificial intelligence uncouples hard work from fair wages through ‘surveillance pay’ practices—and how to fix it — Veena Dubal, Wilneida Negrón
• Algorithms of Exploitation — Human Rights Watch

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Computer Says Maybe is produced by Georgia Iacovou, Kushal Dev, Marion Wellington, Sarah Myles, Van Newman, and Zoe Trout