In today’s episode, we’re tackling the often-unspoken side of leadership and culture the subtle, psychological dynamics that quietly corrode healthy teams. While most of my experiences with leaders in the fire service have been overwhelmingly positive, we can’t ignore the fact that some individuals, though not blatantly toxic, still manage to suppress, sideline, or demoralise the people around them. These behaviours don’t always lead to disciplinary action, but they do drive good people out of the job, robbing them of fulfilment and joy. This conversation isn’t about blame it’s about awareness, insight, and action.

Joining me is Dr. Nathalie Martinek, a scientist-turned-relational leadership expert, who helps professionals navigate complex power dynamics, covert narcissism, and cultural dysfunctions in the workplace. We’ll explore topics like imposter syndrome, soft control tactics, empathy fatigue, and how to identify manipulative personalities that often hide in plain sight. If you’ve ever walked away from an interaction feeling unseen or undermined but couldn’t quite explain why this episode will make you feel heard. And if none of this sounds familiar to you… well, as they say: if you don’t know who the arsehole in the room is....it might be you.

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In 2010, a terrifying blaze tore through the high-rise apartments at 200 Wellesley Street East in Toronto, pushing firefighters and resources to their absolute limits. Crews faced intense heat, heavy smoke, and severe challenges with stairwell access and evacuation on upper floors, making it one of the city’s most complex high-rise fires. The incident exposed critical gaps in aerial operations, communications, and staging under extreme conditions, forcing a hard look at the realities of high-rise firefighting.

The “Fire in the Sky” would go on to shape high-rise firefighting in Toronto forever, leading to significant changes in training, equipment, and operational guidelines. From improved stairwell pressurization and backup air systems to refined accountability and evacuation protocols, the lessons from 200 Wellesley became a turning point for the service and a reminder of the constant need to adapt, prepare, and protect both firefighters and residents in the vertical cities we serve.

Connect with Brent Brooks HERE

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A big thanks to our partners for supporting this episode.

• GORE-TEX Professional Clothing
• MSA The Safety Company
• IDEX
• FIRE & EVACUATION SERVICE LTD
• HAIX Footwear - Get offical podcast discount on HAIX HERE
• Xendurance - to hunt performance & endurance 20% off HERE with code ffp20
• Lyfe Linez - Get Functional Hydration FUEL for FIREFIGHTERS, Clean no sugar for daily hydration. 80% of people live dehydrated

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Today on the Firefighters Podcast, I sit down with Phil Garrigan, Chair of the National Fire Chiefs Council, to discuss the future of the UK fire and rescue service. With 34 years in the job, Phil shares why this is not about titles but about preparing our service for tougher challenges – from climate change and wildfires to aging infrastructure and shifting public expectations – all while we are asked to do more with less.

We explore how consistent national training, embracing new technologies, and building leadership grounded in emotional intelligence will keep our service ready and trusted. Phil challenges us to consider whether we are shaping the future together or letting it shape us, reminding us that protecting the communities we serve means we must plan for tomorrow as seriously as we plan for our next incident. Join us as we unpack what needs to change, what we need to protect, and how we can build a fire service that remains strong and relevant for the challenges ahead.

Connect with Phil HERE

ACCESS THE PODCAST LIBRARY & EVERY EPISODE, DEBRIEF & DOCUMENT CLICK HERE

PODCAST GIFT - Get your FREE subscription to essential Firefighting publications HERE

A big thanks to our partners for supporting this episode.

• GORE-TEX Professional Clothing
• MSA The Safety Company
• IDEX
• FIRE & EVACUATION SERVICE LTD
• HAIX Footwear - Get offical podcast discount on HAIX HERE
• Xendurance - to hunt performance & endurance 20% off HERE with code ffp20
• Lyfe Linez - Get Functional Hydration FUEL for FIREFIGHTERS, Clean no sugar for daily hydration. 80% of people live dehydrated

Send us a text

Support the show

***The views expressed in this episode are those of the individual speakers. Our partners are not responsible for the content of this episode and does not warrant its accuracy or completeness.***

Please support the podcast and its future by clicking HERE and joining our Patreon Crew