Dr. Suzette Glasner sits down with Kathryn Burgum, White House Senior Advisor for Addiction Recovery and Co-Chair of the Great American Recovery Initiative, at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services in Washington, D.C.

Kathryn has been sober for 24 years. In this conversation, she shares her personal journey through alcohol addiction, undiagnosed depression, and years of relapse — and the moment that asking for help changed everything. She and Dr. Glasner talk about the role faith played in her recovery, why addiction should be treated as a chronic disease rather than a moral failing, the shame and stigma that keep people from seeking help, the case for peer recovery support specialists, and what she hopes the Great American Recovery Initiative will change for the next generation.

You can watch the full episode here:

Chapters:2:01 Kathryn Burgum’s Story: The Moment Everything Changed After Two Decades10:41 Faith, Gratitude, and the Research on Spirituality13:55 Depression, Relapse, and Staying Vigilant in Recovery21:26 The Case for Peer Recovery Support Specialists25:32 A White House With Personal Ties to Addiction — and the Birth of the Initiative35:49 Fixing a Fragmented, Stigmatized Treatment System45:18 What Success Looks Like, and the Cost of Inaction59:20 Turning Lived Experience Into Policy — and Her Message to Anyone Still Struggling

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, call or text 988 for immediate support. To find treatment for addiction in the United States, visit FindTreatment.gov.

🔔 Follow/subscribe wherever you listen for weekly episodes on the psychology and neuroscience of mental health, addiction, and behavior. 📩 Send your questions or topic requests: AskDrGlasner@gmail.com 🧩 Learn more about Dr. Glasner: https://drglasner.com

After several episodes deep in the policy side of the kratom story — the DEA’s action on 7-OH, the regulatory fight, and the science, this week, we delve into a heartbreaking true story told by documentarians - in their forthcoming film.

Jason and Jamie Neese are twin brothers, and Emmy-nominated producers on Netflix’s The Umbrella Academy. Their new documentary, “Kratom: Side Effects May Include,” just had its world premiere at Dances With Films in New York and has since screened in Los Angeles. But before any of that, it started with a phone call and a story they couldn’t shake: Patti Wheeler had lost one of her twin sons to kratom. He died in his twin brother’s arms.

As twins themselves, that detail hit Jason and Jamie differently than it might hit anyone else — and it’s a big part of why this conversation goes places most film-promotion interviews don’t. We talk about what it was like directing this project together as brothers, what surprised them most during production, and where they’ve landed on the policy fight now splitting the kratom industry, including their response to American Kratom Association figure Mac Haddow’s public claims about Patti’s motives.

In this episode:– Growing up as twins, and directing a film together as adults– How making the film challenged their assumptions about addiction and stigma– Patti Wheeler’s story, and what it meant to hear it as twins themselves– Their take on kratom and concentrated 7-OH after making the film– The pushback from the kratom industry, and how they’ve responded– What they hope the film actually changes

Watch or listen to the full conversation below:

If you want to go deeper: watch the trailer for “Kratom: Side Effects May Include,” here: https://kratomsideeffectsmayinclude.com

Visit Patti Wheeler’s nonprofit, A Beautiful Life Stolen: https://abeautifullifestolen.com

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction: SAMHSA National Helpline, 1-800-662-4357.

If this one lands for you, forward it to someone who’d want to hear it.

🔔 Follow/subscribe wherever you listen for weekly episodes on the psychology and neuroscience of mental health, addiction, and behavior.

📩 Send your questions or topic requests: AskDrGlasner@gmail.com

🧩 Learn more about Dr. Glasner: https://drglasner.com

#Kratom #KratomAwareness #7OH #AddictionScience #OpioidCrisis

Ep. 64: A Mother’s Fight After Losing Her Son to Kratom — Patti Wheeler

Patti Wheeler spent fifteen years traveling the world as a flight attendant, then became a mother to twin sons, Gannon and Wyatt, and an author of the beloved Travels with Gannon & Wyatt book series. On October 25, 2022, everything changed: her son Wyatt, 27, died after taking kratom — in his twin brother’s arms. He’d turned to kratom as a way to stop drinking, with little or no awareness of the potential risks associated with its use.

In this episode, clinical psychologist and addiction scientist Dr. Suzette Glasner talks with Patti about who Wyatt was before she lost him, and what the science actually says about kratom — its effects on the brain, its risks, and its potential benefits. Dr. Glasner and Patti also discuss how Patti turned unimaginable grief into action — executive producing the documentary Kratom: Side Effects May Include (directed by Jamie and Jason Neese of The Umbrella Academy) and founding the nonprofit A Beautiful Life Stolen — along with the political fight over regulating 7-OH and kratom extract, and what Patti wants every parent and lawmaker to understand.

You can watch the full episode here:

Chapters:2:16 Turning Grief Into Advocacy — and Facing the Backlash6:07 What Patti Wheeler Wishes She'd Known about Kratom10:17 Who Patti Was Before Kratom Changed Everything15:28 Wyatt's DUI and His First Brush With Kratom19:53 October 2022: The Warning Signs in Aspen26:37 The Smoke Shop, the Concentrate, and the Science of 7-OH33:49 The Night Wyatt Died41:19 The Toxicology Report: Setting the Record Straight45:13 The Regulatory Fight: What Should Happen to Kratom and 7-OH50:28 Becoming a Documentary Producer52:36 What Would Wyatt Say?

Content note: this episode includes a detailed account of a child’s death and may be difficult for some listeners.

Learn more / get involved: Documentary: Kratom: Side Effects May Include — kratomsideeffectsmayinclude.com

Patti’s nonprofit: A Beautiful Life Stolen — abeautifullifestolen.com

If you or someone you love is struggling with kratom dependence: SAMHSA National Helpline, 1-800-662-4357

🔔 Follow/subscribe wherever you listen for weekly episodes on the psychology and neuroscience of mental health, addiction, and behavior.

📩 Send your questions or topic requests: AskDrGlasner@gmail.com

🧩 Learn more about Dr. Glasner: https://drglasner.com

#Kratom #KratomAwareness #7OH #AddictionScience #OpioidCrisis