What if our weariness as pastors isn’t a sign of failure, but rather a sign that we’re measuring success by the wrong metric?

In this episode, Bryan Rouanzoin and Bill Dogterom seek to reconcile Jesus’ promise of an “easy yoke” with the pervasive weariness so many pastors experience today. Bill shares how his own weariness sparked a life-changing shift from a church-growth mindset to a formation mindset. He and Bryan discuss the three spiritual practices that help “keep the yoke easy,” why he intentionally distinguishes his personal spirituality from his professional spirituality, and how he recognizes which parts of his soul need care.

Bill Dogterom is professor emeritus in the School of Theology & Ministry at Vanguard University. He has served in pastoral ministry for more than 25 years, including as senior pastor of Foothill Christian Center in California. He has also been involved in pastoral ministry in Canada and the United States.

To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.

This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.

Mentioned in this conversation:

• Sabbath As Resistance: Saying No to the Culture of Now by Walter Brueggemann
• The Sabbath by Abraham Joshua Heschel
• Working the Angles: The Shape of Pastoral Integrity by Eugene H. Peterson
• The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence
• Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home by Richard Foster
• Prayer by Hans Urs von Balthasar
• The Interior Castle by Teresa of Avila
• Ruth Burrows
• Evenlyn Underhill

What if the most vital work of spiritual formation isn’t first in your church, but in the hidden story you’re already living with God?

In this episode, join Bryan Rouanzoin and Todd Pickett for a conversation on what it means to truly be a contemplative, and the fruit of a life lived this way. Drawing from Todd’s journey through the university and into the local church, they explore how literature and poetry became his training ground for spiritual formation. Along the way, they discuss the essential questions underneath spiritual formation, every pastor’s temptation to make a name for themselves, and the invitation to let God burn away what Todd calls “our fantasy selves” so we can live as our real selves before God, for the sake of those we shepherd.

The Rev. Dr. Todd Pickett (Ph.D.) is pastor of Holy Trinity Anglican Church in Costa Mesa, CA. Prior to his leadership in the pastorate, Dr. Pickett served for 27 years as a professor, Dean of Spiritual Development and campus pastor at Biola University.

To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.

This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.

How can we pastor without sacrificing our own souls on the altar of hurry and anxiety?

In this episode, join Jay Kim and Alan Fadling for a wide-ranging conversation on the inner pace of pastoral ministry. Drawing from over four decades in ministry, Alan explores what it means to practice the presence — not the absence — of God, to tend conditions rather than just drive results, and to embrace the slow, patient work of becoming unhurried, non-anxious shepherds. Along the way, they reflect on Alan’s simple conviction that, in the end, leadership is love — and love isn’t rushed.

Alan Fadling is the President and Founder of Unhurried Living, Inc. in Mission Viejo, California, a Christian non-profit that trains leaders to rest deeper, live fuller, and lead better. Along with his wife, Gem, he leads PACE, a two-year leadership formation journey. A trained spiritual director and coach with over 30 years of experience, he speaks and consults internationally with organizations like InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Cru, and Saddleback Church. He is the award-winning author of five core books, including An Unhurried Life, An Unhurried Leader, and A Non-Anxious Life, and is currently working on a forthcoming book on contemplative leadership. He lives in California with his family.

To find more resources and experiences tailored just for you—the pastor—visit practicingtheway.org/pastor.

This podcast and its episodes are free, thanks to the generosity of The Circle and other givers. You can learn more about The Circle or contribute toward future resources like this podcast at practicingtheway.org/give.