Agents outnumbering humans 3 to 1 sounds like a future state. At ClickUp, it is already the baseline, and Head of AI Jay Hack thinks the real ratio is closer to 10 to 1.

Jay Hack founded CodeGen, one of the earliest coding agent companies, before it was acquired by ClickUp. Jay now leads AI across the entire platform. With hundreds of thousands of workspaces running agents today, Jay shares how ClickUp governs agents using the same permission model as human employees, why process mining is the most underrated first step for any company getting started, and what it actually takes to drive adoption bottom-up inside a large organisation.

In this episode, we explore:

(02:02) How Jay built CodeGen as a coding agent before the term existed

(05:20) Why ClickUp's unified data model solved CodeGen's biggest technical blocker

(09:38) The three-stage hierarchy of agent adoption Jay recommends to every company

(13:01) Process mining: letting an agent identify what you should automate first

(20:25) How ClickUp governs agents using the same permissions model as human employees

(22:57) Jay on the lump of labour fallacy and why ClickUp is still hiring aggressively

(25:34) The one thing Jay got wrong: how fast agent capabilities would actually move

(28:57) The single action any company can take this week to start with agents

The AI Revolution Show is the intelligence podcast for B2B software founders navigating the platform shift, the founders building through it, and the founders already on the other side. Hosted by Alex Theuma, founder of Shift AI Events. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

Kai Brandt built Enginy to $6M ARR in 24 months with a 65-person team and almost no outside capital, competing directly against tools burning $20M to reach the same number.

Alex Theuma sits down with the Enginy co-founder to hear how capital constraints forced genuinely efficient growth, why Europe's multilingual first-party data is a defensible moat US competitors cannot easily replicate, and what it actually takes to keep a founder sharp enough to make good decisions every day.

In this episode, we explore:

(02:48) Why less funding forced Enginy into genuinely efficient growth

(05:51) Building an end-to-end AI sales tool in a category full of point solutions

(10:53) What Barcelona gives founders that Silicon Valley cannot

(16:04) How Enginy uses its own product as its primary growth engine

(19:38) Gamifying LinkedIn posting across the whole team with real cash incentives

(24:01) The Claude MCP playbook powering Enginy's internal GTM workflows

(35:40) What changes between $3M ARR and the road to $100M

(40:51) Why first-party multilingual data is Enginy's long-term competitive moat

(44:21) The personal habits Kai changed to stay sharp as a founder

The AI Revolution Show is the intelligence podcast for B2B software founders navigating the platform shift, the founders building through it, and the founders already on the other side. Hosted by Alex Theuma, founder of Shift AI Events. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

Wouter Durville is the CEO and co-founder of TestGorilla, a skills-based hiring platform used by thousands of companies across the globe, backed by $80M in funding. Wouter shares his five-pillar AI fluency framework, explains which traditional hiring signals are genuinely dead, and makes the case for why screening people in matters more than screening them out.

In this episode, we explore:

(01:36) Why Wouter hires for behaviour, not knowledge, every time

(02:24) What TestGorilla actually does and how it flipped the assessment funnel

(07:37) How to test for skills when their half-life is collapsing

(08:32) The five-pillar AI fluency framework Wouter's scientists built

(13:10) Surprising data from the State of AI Fluency report

(15:15) The most wrong thing leaders say about hiring for AI

(18:29) What Wouter would do differently with $80M raised

(20:17) Why established scale-ups can't move as fast as two people with AI tools

(22:00) The Venezuelan medical doctor who topped the SEO assessment

The AI Revolution Show is the intelligence podcast for B2B software founders navigating the platform shift, the founders building through it, and the founders already on the other side. Hosted by Alex Theuma, founder of Shift AI Events. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.