This episode on Tailgate Talks, Donald Forgione sits down with Mark Eller from Leave No Trace for a conversation about protecting the outdoors through education, stewardship, and personal responsibility.

Mark shares the story behind the Leave No Trace movement, the growing pressures facing parks and public lands, and why simple actions by everyday visitors can make a lasting difference. The discussion explores how outdoor recreation professionals, park managers, volunteers, and visitors all play a role in protecting natural and cultural resources for future generations.

The episode also highlights the importance of practical, science-based outdoor ethics, visitor education, and the challenge of balancing increased visitation with conservation. Donald and Mark discuss how Leave No Trace principles apply not only in remote wilderness settings, but also in local parks, campgrounds, beaches, trails, and everyday outdoor spaces.

Topics include:

• The history and mission of Leave No Trace
• The Seven Principles and why they matter
• Protecting parks during periods of heavy visitation
• Visitor behavior and resource impacts
• Education versus enforcement
• Stewardship partnerships with parks and recreation agencies
• How recreation professionals can build a culture of conservation
• The future of outdoor ethics in America

Whether you work in parks, recreation, forestry, wildlife management, tourism, or simply love the outdoors, this episode offers practical insight and inspiration for caring for the places we all enjoy.

Leave No Trace is a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting the outdoors through education, research, and stewardship. Mark Eller serves as Director of Membership and Communications, helping lead outreach, storytelling, partnerships, and educational initiatives that support responsible outdoor recreation.

• Leave No Trace Website
• The 7 Principles of Leave No Trace

• General Information: info@LNT.org
• Mark Eller: Mark@LNT.org

For speaking, training, consulting, or podcast inquiries with Donald Forgione:

• Email: donald.forgione@gmail.com
• LinkedIn: Donald Forgione on LinkedIn

Out here on the Tailgate, we talk a lot about the future of parks. In this episode, we're getting right to the heart of it—our next generation.

I'm joined by Ivan Levin from the National Park Trust, an organization dedicated to connecting kids and families to parks, public lands, and the outdoors.

Ivan brings a national perspective on how partnerships between park agencies, nonprofits, and communities can create meaningful opportunities for young people to experience parks—many for the very first time.

We talk about what's working across the country, how programs like Kids to Parks Day are making an impact, and how park professionals at every level can plug into these efforts in a practical way.

This is a conversation about access, stewardship, and making sure the parks we care for today are valued tomorrow.

• The mission and impact of the National Park Trust
• Why early connections to parks matter more than ever
• How partnerships expand reach and resources
• Practical ways park professionals can get involved locally
• Success stories from across the country
• Building lifelong stewards through meaningful outdoor experiences

If we want strong parks in the future, we need strong connections today. Programs that introduce kids to the outdoors aren't just nice to have—they are essential to the long-term sustainability of our profession and the places we protect.

To learn more about the National Park Trust and how you can get involved, visit:
👉 https://parktrust.org/

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with your team and colleagues. Together, we can keep growing as professionals and strengthening the impact of parks across the country.

donald.forgione@gmail.com

How many visitors are too many?

It is one of the most important and most misunderstood questions in parks and public lands today. In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald sits down with Jonathan Brunjes, Deputy Administrator for the Nevada Division of State Parks, to unpack the concept of carrying capacity and why it is not just about counting people. It is about protecting resources, preserving visitor experience, and making thoughtful management decisions that sustain parks for generations.

Together they explore:

• What carrying capacity really means, beyond a simple number

• The difference between physical, ecological, social, and managerial capacity

• Why "more visitation" is not always a success story

• How crowding affects both natural resources and the visitor experience

• Practical tools park leaders can use to evaluate use and impacts

• The role of communication, expectations, and education in managing demand

• Why carrying capacity is ultimately about stewardship, not restriction

This conversation brings real world perspective to an issue many agencies are grappling with as visitation grows nationwide. It is an honest look at how we balance access with preservation, while staying true to the mission of public lands.

Whether you are a park professional, planner, elected official, or someone who simply loves the outdoors, this episode will challenge you to think differently about how we care for the places entrusted to us.

jbrunjes@parks.nv.gov

donald.forgione@gmail.com

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, I sit down with M.J. James, author of Heal the Hustle, for an honest and timely conversation about burnout, productivity culture, and what it really means to live—and lead—well.

Many of us were taught that hustle equals success. Work harder. Push longer. Rest later. But what happens when that mindset starts to cost us our health, relationships, creativity, and joy?

M.J. challenges the traditional hustle narrative and offers a healthier, more sustainable way forward—especially for leaders, high performers, and purpose-driven professionals who care deeply about their work.

Together, we talk about:

• How hustle culture quietly leads to burnout

• The difference between ambition and exhaustion

• Why rest is not a reward—it's a requirement

• Reframing productivity to include health and humanity

• Practical ways leaders can model balance without losing effectiveness

• How healing the hustle creates stronger teams, better decisions, and longer careers

This conversation is especially relevant for public servants, park and recreation professionals, nonprofit leaders, and anyone who feels called to serve—but doesn't want to lose themselves in the process.

If you've ever felt tired, stretched thin, or wondered, "Is this pace really sustainable?"—this episode is for you.

M.J. James is the author of Heal the Hustle and a passionate advocate for redefining success in a world that glorifies burnout. Through her work, she helps individuals and organizations rethink productivity, prioritize well-being, and build lives rooted in purpose—not constant pressure.

🔗 Learn more about M.J. and her work: mjjames.com

donald.forgione@gmail.com

tailgate-talks.com

Guest: Lauren McMillan, PhD, RPA – Cultural Resource Manager, Virginia State Parks Lauren.McMillan@dcr.virginia.gov
Host: Donald Forgione donald.forgione@gmail.com

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald Forgione sits down with Lauren McMillan, the Cultural Resource Manager from Virginia State Parks, to talk about what cultural resources really are—and why they matter far beyond compliance, checklists, or old buildings.

This conversation explores the humanity behind cultural resources: the people, stories, and lived experiences embedded in landscapes, structures, and artifacts across our parks. Lauren shares her journey from academia into state parks, how teaching shapes her work today, and why helping staff understand the why behind cultural resource protection changes everything—from decision-making to visitor experience.

This episode is a thoughtful reminder that parks don't just protect land—they protect stories.

• What cultural resources actually include (and common misconceptions)

• Moving from compliance-driven preservation to meaningful connection

• The role of cultural resource managers in everyday park decisions

• Balancing preservation, safety, and public use

• Why physical places help us connect to the humanity of the past

• How understanding cultural resources strengthens park staff and visitor experience

• Cultural resources aren't just "old things"—they are evidence of real people

• Why interpretation and preservation go hand in hand

• How cultural resource awareness empowers non-specialist park staff

• The danger of treating preservation as a checklist instead of a responsibility

• Protecting stories, not just structures

• Park, recreation, and public land professionals

• Interpreters, rangers, maintenance staff, and managers

• Leaders making decisions that affect historic and cultural sites

• Anyone who believes parks are about people as much as places

When we understand the stories embedded in our parks, we don't just protect resources—we honor the people who came before us and enrich the experience of those who come after.

Guest: Brent Leisure, Director of Texas State Parks (ret)

Ethics in state parks is rarely about clear-cut right and wrong. More often, leaders find themselves navigating gray areas—where policies, public expectations, resource protection, staff morale, and political realities collide.

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald sits down with Brent Leisure for a thoughtful, practical conversation about ethical leadership in state parks. Together, they explore how ethics shows up in everyday decisions—far beyond policy manuals and audit reports—and why culture, consistency, and courage matter more than titles.

This episode speaks directly to park professionals who are balancing limited resources, public trust, internal pressures, and stewardship responsibilities. Whether you're a new supervisor or a seasoned leader, this conversation offers tools to help you lead with integrity when the path forward isn't obvious.

• The difference between ethics and morals in leadership

• Why most ethical challenges live in the gray area, not black and white

• How small compromises can quietly shape organizational culture

• The role of consistency and fairness in building trust with staff

• Why "this is how we've always done it" can be a warning sign

• Navigating ethical decisions under pressure from politics, public opinion, and limited resources

• How leaders can model ethical behavior—even when it's uncomfortable

• Practical ways to prepare yourself and your team for ethical decision-making before problems arise

• Ethical leadership is less about rules and more about daily choices

• Culture is shaped by what leaders tolerate, not just what they say

• Transparency and accountability protect both the organization and the leader

• When leaders do the right thing early, they avoid much harder decisions later

• Park Rangers and frontline staff

• Supervisors, managers, and administrators

• Emerging leaders preparing for greater responsibility

• Anyone serving in public lands, conservation, or recreation

🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts
If this episode resonates, please share it with a colleague, mentor, or emerging leader—and keep the conversation going around the tailgate.

In today's episode, Donald sits on the tailgate with Kevin Korenthal, Executive Director of the National Association of Park Foundations, to explore how park professionals and their supporting foundations can work together more effectively, more confidently, and with clearer expectations.

Kevin brings decades of nonprofit leadership and association experience to NAPF, and he shares practical guidance on building stronger relationships between park agencies and the foundations that support them.

We discuss:

• What Park Foundations Actually Do
  Beyond fundraising — their role in advocacy, community engagement, volunteerism, and long-term resource development.

• Why Some Partnerships Thrive (and Why Others Struggle)
  Kevin explains common pitfalls between parks and foundations and how communication, clarity, and expectations can make or break the relationship.

• How Park Professionals Can Better Support Their Foundations
  Simple actions staff can take that dramatically increase trust and effectiveness.

• Board Development & Governance Tips
  Recruiting the right volunteers, setting expectations, and avoiding the "warm body on a board" trap.

• How to Communicate Needs Without Making "The Big Ask" Every Time
  Tools and practices for creating open, ongoing dialogue.

• What Foundations Wish Park Managers Understood
  Kevin offers honest, actionable insights that managers can implement right away.

• Training, Mentorship, and the Importance of a Shared Mission
  How park professionals can build a stronger culture of stewardship around their foundation.

Kevin Korenthal, CAE, is the Executive Director of the National Association of Park Foundations, an organization dedicated to strengthening parks through strong, ethical, and effective supporting foundations. He brings deep expertise in nonprofit management, board development, leadership training, and fostering healthy partnerships between agencies and their philanthropic arms. Learn more at www.the-napf.org.

Park Foundations are powerful multipliers — but only when the park and the foundation operate as partners, not separate planets. This episode equips park professionals with the understanding and tools they need to:

• Build trust

• Improve communication

• Engage board members

• Strengthen fundraising capacity

• Create a positive, lasting partnership

If you work with a Friends group, foundation, or nonprofit partner — this conversation is essential listening.

• Website: www.the-napf.org

• Email: execdir@the-napf.org