Reimagining classroom management for equity. The Sunny Side View Podcast.

This podcast episode features a conversation centered on the text These Kids Are Out of Control: Why We Must Reimagine “Classroom Management” for Equity by Milner, Cunningham, Delale-O’Connor, and Kestenberg (2019). In this episode, Sunny Brown interviews Joseph Graham, a sociologist, activist, and educational equity advocate whose work in urban schools provides a lived foundation for understanding the realities behind student behavior and systemic responses. The discussion explores how classroom management cannot be reduced to rules and compliance, but should instead be rooted in cultural responsiveness, restorative practices, humanizing relationships, and community understanding.

Throughout the episode, listeners are guided through major themes from the book, including the impact of cultural mismatch on discipline, the significance of teacher identity and positionality, and the connection between school discipline practices and the Cradle to Prison Pipeline. Drawing on course readings such as hooks’ (1994) concept of engaged pedagogy, Freire’s (1970) principles of liberatory education, and research on disproportionate discipline from the Office for Civil Rights (2016), the episode highlights how traditional management systems often reinforce structural inequities.

The conversation also examines the “pedagogy of poverty” described by Haberman (2010) and discussed in chapter three of the text, emphasizing the importance of meaningful, culturally relevant instruction as a foundation for classroom management. Examples from Joseph’s work in youth organizing deepen the discussion on restorative discipline, echoing the work of Amstutz and Mullet (2005) and connecting to political philosophies of liberation seen in the teachings of Malcolm X and Fred Hampton. Together, these perspectives create a dialogue that bridges scholarship, activism, and the lived experiences of Black and Brown youth in schools.

This episode encourages educators, scholars, and community members to reimagine classroom leadership as a practice of care, justice, and cultural affirmation. It positions teachers not as managers of behavior, but as partners in healing, growth, and liberation.

Amstutz, L. S., & Mullet, J. H. (2005). The little book of restorative discipline for schools. Good Books.

Freire, P. (1970). Pedagogy of the oppressed. Herder and Herder.

Haberman, M. (2010). The pedagogy of poverty versus good teaching. Phi Delta Kappan, 92(2), 81–87.

hooks, b. (1994). Teaching to transgress: Education as the practice of freedom. Routledge.

Milner, H. R. IV, Cunningham, H. B., Delale-O’Connor, L., & Kestenberg, E. G. (2019). These kids are out of control: Why we must reimagine “classroom management” for equity. Corwin.

U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights. (2016). 2013–2014 Civil Rights Data Collection: A first look.

contact:

sunnysideviewpodcast@gmail.com

iamjosephgrahamjr@gmail.com