Will Storr has spent thirty years working out what a story actually is. He sits down with James for the longest, most personal version he has given of how that obsession started — and what it has cost him to get good at it.

It starts with six words. A tiger. A hunter. A tiger. Will calls this an ancient Bengali story, and inside ninety seconds it has done more to explain how stories work than most books on the subject.

From there he tracks his own arc against the architecture he has spent four books describing — Selfie, The Status Game, The Science of Storytelling, A Story Is a Deal. The Catholic-comp kid who failed every A-level and started a school magazine called The Groover.

The phone call from Loaded where, as he puts it, you were judged on how good your first sentence was. The Oxford open day where an English tutor asked his favourite Tennessee Williams and he wondered, briefly, if it might be a brand of crisps. The great-great-uncle, Samuel Smiles, who in the mid-1800s wrote the book that named the self-help genre.

The thesis of A Story Is a Deal: the most persuasive stories say I see you. I know you. I know how to get you from there up to there. And the question James eventually puts to him — would the boy who pinned a newspaper column to his bedroom wall have had any idea this was coming? Not a chance.

Chapters

(00:00) A tiger, a hunter, a tiger

(02:00) The Catholic comp, The Groover, and the local fanzine

(05:00) Inside Loaded: judged on your first sentence

(10:00) What AI might give back to long-form

(14:00) A Story Is a Deal: hero, connection, status

(16:00) Apple, Sport Club Recife, and the architecture of persuasion

(22:00) The Status Game: virtue as the second route

(24:00) "What's your favourite Tennessee Williams?"

(27:00) Donkins, Smiles, and the comp boy at Cambridge

(36:00) Forget Scott Galloway: get good at something

(39:00) The best of masculinity

(48:00) The method, the jewels, The Five Obstructions

"I see you. I know you. And I know how to get you from there up to there." — Will Storr

Mentioned in this episode

- Will Storr, A Story Is a Deal

- Will Storr, The Science of Storytelling

- Will Storr, The Status Game

- Will Storr, Selfie

- Tom Wolfe, The New Journalism

- Samuel Smiles, Self-Help (1850s)

- George Loewenstein on the psychology of curiosity

- Apple, "Here's to the Crazy Ones"

- Sport Club Recife organ donation campaign

- Lars von Trier, The Five Obstructions (2003)

- Jørgen Leth, The Perfect Human (1967)

- John Gray, Straw Dogs

About the guest

Will Storr is a journalist and author whose books — Selfie, The Status Game, The Science of Storytelling, and most recently A Story Is a Deal — have made him one of the most forensic chroniclers of how identity, status and narrative actually work. He came up at Loaded in the late 1990s, trained in the Tom Wolfe school of long-form, and treats the architecture of a story the way an engineer treats a bridge.

Listen elsewhere

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/storyco/id1886770413

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StoryCoPodcast

Website: https://www.storyco.site

Follow: @StoryCoPodcast

Credits

Host: James Kirkham. Guest: Will Storr. Producer: Jago Lee. Assistant Producer: Nelly Batt. Editor: Ryan O'Meera. Music: Doubt Point. Recorded at TYX Studios, Kings Cross, London.

"I had an early midlife crisis. I ended up at a work event rearranging the downstairs of a restaurant."

Alex Wade is a lawyer, a writer, and a surfer ; in that order of discovery, maybe the reverse order of importance. Fleet Street defamation lawyer. Night lawyer at the Mirror. Head of legal affairs for Richard Desmond. White-collar boxer. Journalist at The Times and The Guardian. Author. Mont Blanc climber. Now co-CEO of Clear Draft, an AI-powered legal clearance business for publishers and broadcasters.

In this conversation, James Kirkham and Alex talk about being risk-friendly as a life strategy; what the ocean and a boxing ring have in common when it comes to telling you the truth about yourself; working for Richard Desmond on Fantasy Channel election night; the moment he sat on a bench outside a church and thought he'd ruined his life; the bedtime poem his 8-year-old daughter preferred in its AI-assisted form; and what Clear Draft is trying to fix.

StoryCo : the podcast about the business of story featuring the people who built it.

Hosted by James Kirkham. Produced by Jago Lee. A Telltale Industries production.

Alex Wade, Clear Draft, StoryCo, James Kirkham, storytelling, AI, legal clearance, surfing, boxing, reinvention

"Is there a formula for fame?" "Definitely." "Can you tell me?" "No."

PR legend Mark Borkowski has spent four decades bending media to his will: from circus stunts to celebrity crisis management, Alcopop scandals to political warfare.

Mark opens with the greatest dilemma of his career , chasing the Holy Grail or pitching Bisto gravy granules, before unravelling how spectacle, nerve, and story have driven his work from the PT Barnum era to the age of TikTok.

He explains why "idea pornography" gets people fired, how fame has collapsed from 15 minutes to 15 seconds, and why the young generation's return to lo-fi, intimate culture gives him hope.

The conversation turns sharply political: Mark dissects Trump's genius as a communicator, Starmer's inability to connect, and makes the case for Citizens Assemblies as democracy's best remaining tool. He closes with a raw reflection on losing his father at 17 and why he's never stopped looking for the next adventure.

Topics covered:

— The Holy Grail vs. Bisto: choosing adventures over accounts

— PT Barnum, elephants, and the birth of experiential PR

— Celebrity + controversy = ignition: Kanye to Bonnie Blue

— The formula for fame — and its 15-second shelf life

— Idea pornography: the stunt that wiped out an entire department

— Soul not scroll: QR codes on lampposts and lo-fi rebellion

— Social media as tobacco: addiction, doom scrolling, and regulation

— Trump vs. Starmer: a masterclass in political communication failure

— The Holocaust memorial stunt that silenced a far-right politician

— Crisis management: why every crisis is unique

— Ricky Jay, dead cats, and the magic of misdirection

— Adventure capitalism: 40 years of fierce independence

StoryCo is a podcast about the business of story and storytelling, hosted by James Kirkham.

Produced by Telltale Industries.

Recorded at TYX Studios, London.

Follow StoryCo: storyco.site | @storyco on Instagram and TikTok