What does it really mean to lead marketing in 2025? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with executive brand strategist Emma Logan to unpack the realities facing modern marketing leaders, from blurred job boundaries and rising stakeholder expectations to the personal toll of visibility and performance.

Emma shares why every senior marketer already has an “executive brand”, whether they’ve defined it or not, and how failing to own that narrative means letting others do it for you. Together, she and James explore what authentic leadership looks like in a post-pandemic world, how to navigate complexity without burning out, why connection and energy management are not just nice-to-haves and more.

• Emma’s journey - The story behind The Emma Logan Project
• Why every CMO needs an intentional executive brand and what happens if you don’t define it
• The growing complexity of the marketing role: from AI and capability gaps to shifting cultural expectations
• How trust, transparency and delivery underpin influence at the C-suite and board level
• Networking as a leadership superpower: the ROI of connection and community
• Why energy, recovery and self-awareness are becoming critical to sustainable leadership

Emma Logan has spent more than 15 years working across marketing and media in New Zealand, London and Australia, spanning client-side, agency, publisher and not-for-profit roles. She’s partnered with numerous leading brands and marketing talent, bringing a rare 360-degree perspective to the challenges facing today’s leaders.

Through The Emma Logan Project, she now runs a “marketer-focused consultancy,” helping CMOs and senior marketing leaders define who they are and how to amplify their impact across their teams and the wider industry.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

For decades the agency-client relationship has worked on a transactional view of marketing and creative services. Agencies gave away their best thinking upfront, clients judged on surface-level ideas and both sides accepted a process that often undervalued expertise.

In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence and renowned author Blair Enns discuss how the future of creative and professional services lies in changing how we buy, sell and trust expertise. Whether you’re in-house or agency-side, these shifts carry big implications for how you choose partners and build lasting relationships that drive marketing success.

• Why traditional pitching often undervalues creative work and what it takes to break free from it
• How specialisation is the key to differentiation, growth and global reach
• What three-option proposals and value-based pricing reveal about how expertise should really be sold
• Why selling is less about the big presentation and more about a series of meaningful conversations
• How AI is fragmenting the market and empowering smaller, more specialised players
• What in-house marketers can do to unlock more value from their agency partners.

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organisation for creative and professional services firms. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Pricing Creativity and The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise. Blair is also the co-host of the widely followed 2Bobs podcast.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Ranking in ChatGPT is now one of the most urgent challenges in digital marketing. With millions of Australians using AI search every week, the question for in-house marketers isn’t whether ChatGPT is shaping buyer journeys anymore, it’s how to make sure your brand is visible where and when it matters most.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket’s Head of SEO, Joe Alder, to unpack the latest research and share practical advice on what it really takes to rank in ChatGPT.

• Why traffic from ChatGPT converts at over 5x the rate of traditional search traffic, and what that means for marketers
• The two ways ChatGPT sources information, and how each affects your visibility
• The technical dos and don’ts that determine whether your site can be read by ChatGPT
• How to structure copy so it’s more likely to be cited in AI search
• The kinds of content that are consistently favoured in AI responses
• Why authority now means brand mentions, reviews, listicles and awards, not just backlinks
• The hard truth about measurement: why click-through rates from ChatGPT are so low, and what you can do to track your traffic from AI search

Joe Alder is the Head of SEO at Rocket Agency, leading all SEO services and projects. With over 8 years of experience, Joe has implemented complex SEO campaigns for B2C, B2B and government organisations, working with notable brands such as Amazon, Qudos, P&O Cruises, PE Nation, Fujitsu and Coates.

Since the launch of ChatGPT, he and his team have been at the frontline of AI search optimisation - running first-hand tests across thousands of queries, analysing data from Australia’s top websites and guiding brands on how to adapt their SEO strategies for an AI-driven future.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.