In marketing, there exists a fine line between influencing decisions and crossing into manipulation. The difference? One builds trust while the other erodes it.

Host James Lawrence chats with Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and former CEO of creative behavioural science agency HardHat, about applying behavioural science principles like default bias and anchoring to your marketing, related ethical considerations and how to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation.

• Dan’s journey - starting Hardhat and his interest in behavioural science
• Introduction to behavioural science and it’s connection to marketing
• What are some common behavioural biases you see everyday?

-Default bias

-Framing

-Anchoring

-Loss aversion

-Effort bias

• Ethics in persuasion vs manipulation
• Navigating dark patterns
• How context impacts perception and shapes biases
• Essential behavioural science resources for marketers

Dan Monheit is a leader in creative behavioural science. In 2005, he founded Hardhat, a pioneering agency that worked with top brands like Mattel, Bega Dairy, the Victorian Government, Kogan, DocuSign and Afterpay. Under his direction, Hardhat became a go-to agency for brands looking to understand and influence consumer behaviour.

In October 2024, Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell, where Dan now serves as Chief CX Thinker, applying his expertise to elevate customer experiences through a blend of creativity and behavioural insights.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

As platforms push Performance Max, Advantage+ and new modelling systems, we’re entering a world where results often look better in-platform than they do in reality. Behind the scenes, attribution is becoming harder and marketers are being forced to rethink how they interpret success altogether.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Paid Media Manager, Adrian Oguz, to unpack what truly matters when you’re running paid media in an AI-driven landscape. Adrian shares an unfiltered view on automation, performance loops, the limits of attribution and how in-house marketers can step back and measure what actually drives growth, and not just what looks good on a dashboard.

• Why AI-driven campaign types often optimise toward the easiest conversions, not the most valuable ones
• How to recognise when Performance Max has fallen into the “existing customer loop”
• The hidden risks of lead-gen automation and why spam leads often spike before performance improves
• The simple macro metrics that reveal whether your media is genuinely growing the business
• How channels like YouTube can drive huge results without showing any conversions in-platform
• Why creative is becoming the new targeting, especially inside Meta’s evolving ecosystem
• How to design tests that prove whether a channel is actually contributing to growth
• When it’s time to scale spend, and when stability matters more than chasing the next tactic

Adrian Oguz is a Paid Media Manager at Rocket Agency, overseeing multi-million-dollar budgets across search, social and programmatic. With his clear, practical approach, he’s led multiple award-winning campaigns for various business types and industries across the APAC Search Awards and SEMrush Awards year after year.

You can follow Adrian on LinkedIn.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Marketers have long optimised for visibility and memory, but in our metric-focused industry, are we measuring what really matters?

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence speaks with Dr. Karen Nelson-Field, Founder of Amplified, about why attention is the real currency of modern advertising and how to measure it effectively. From the myth of virality to the flaws in CPMs, Karen shares what years of research reveal about how people truly engage with ads, and what marketers need to do next to stay ahead.

• Dr. Karen’s journey: from academic researcher to founder, shaping the global conversation on attention measurement
• Why traditional metrics like reach, impressions and engagement fail to capture real ad effectiveness
• How attention measurement works and why it’s revolutionising media planning and buying
• The difference between active, passive and non-attention, and how they impact ROI
• Why CPM should stand for “Cost per Meaningless Thousand”
• How creative and media need to work together for attention to truly convert
• Why cheaper ad formats often deliver worse ROI than expected
• The role of AI and synthetic audiences in scaling attention measurement
• The future: the unification of creative and media through AI-driven tools

Additional resource: The Eye-Watering Cost of Dull Media

Dr. Karen Nelson-Field is a globally recognised researcher and entrepreneur reshaping how marketers think about effectiveness. As the Founder and CEO of Amplified, she leads pioneering work in attention measurement across platforms and formats. A former academic turned industry innovator, Karen’s research has influenced how the world’s biggest brands evaluate advertising performance.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.