What do saints, sinners, and zombies have in common? In this episode, Jeremy sits down with author Matthew DiStefano to talk about his book on The Last of Us, the video game that somehow became one of the most philosophically serious explorations of what it means to be human. This conversation goes places you won't see coming: the MLM structure of Christian nationalism, why empathy is more dangerous than we admit, why our morality is less about our convictions and more about our context, and what it feels like to play a character you hate, only to discover you've started rooting for them. You don't need to be a gamer. You need to be someone who's ever wondered what you'd actually do when the world falls apart.

Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/tGczdlIaiPw

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