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We wanted something different from our usual fare, so we invited musician David Gungor to help us see spirituality through an artist’s eyes: beauty, story, woundedness, and play. What starts as a talk about music becomes an exploration of navigating Christian deconstruction, church hurt, and the fear that life’s best days might already be gone.

David shares his pastor’s kid upbringing, the family fallout that reshaped his world, and how his songwriting moved from evangelical worship culture toward liturgical art, peacemaking, and honest ambiguity. We dig into his “threefold path” of spiritual growth, why mythos and narrative matter for meaning, and what separates art from propaganda. If you’ve ever wondered why “Christian music” can feel instantly recognizable in the worst way, this part will stick with you: great spiritual art creates space for interpretation, awe, and participation.

Things get even more real when David talks about pandemic-era health scares, anxiety attacks, intrusive thoughts, therapy, and the practice of “learning to just be.” We end somewhere unexpected: sports as structured play, where competition can become communal healing and even a kind of liturgy.

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